First off, an introduction - This is my first post on 2+2, so I thought I would start off with a hand and ask for your feedback. I mainly play PL08, low limits, 6-max. I'm relatively new, but you may figure that out on your own when you review the hand below. I play on FTP and Stars, but prefer the latter.

Well, here is the hand I'd like to start off with. UTG was very loose, 73% VPIP, 24% PFR, and had been calling down very weak (he had lost a couple of decent pots to me later with hands I would have folded much earlier). I know I didn't play this one well, but I can't figure out at what point I started to go wrong. This wasn't a particularly strong hand for me to start with but for some reason I was stuck to it after the flop. Should I have pushed harder or gotten out sooner?

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $14.05
UTG: $27.80
Hero (MP): $43.70
CO: $7.00
BTN: $6.00
SB: $9.50

Pre Flop: Hero is MP with 4 4 2 3
UTG raises to $0.95, Hero calls $0.95, 4 folds

Flop: ($2.35) 5 8 6 (2 players)
UTG bets $2.25, Hero calls $2.25

Turn: ($6.85) J (2 players)
UTG bets $6.55, Hero calls $6.55

River: ($19.95) T (2 players)
UTG bets $18.05 all in, Hero folds.

fold preflop.

if you want to see the river you have to minraise the flop.

lets see, you have 4 aces, 3 2's, 3 3's, 2 4's, 4 7's. thats 16 outs. so youre flipping to catch something.

even if you hit some of those its gonna be a tough call as you'll never have close to teh nuts without an A.

next time just fold preflop

Welcome to the forum.

In my humble opinion, you should fold after the flop, to UTG's $2.25 bet.

If instead of pot limit it were a no-limit game and Villain shoved after the flop, would you call the $26.85 bet? (You should figure Villain is either bluffing or semi-bluffing or has at least one way locked. You should thus figure you're basically gambling $26.85 to win $1.17 (half of $2.35). Do you want to make that gamble?

If you do, then call Villain down - call on the river too. But if you don't, get out of the pot. You should see it coming when Villain bets virtually the whole pot ($2.25) on the flop. You should see that the next bet will probably be 3* that amount and the last bet will be 9* that amount (if Villain has enough chips). B+3B+9B=13B.

Thus you should see on the flop that what you will be potentially wagering may well come to be 13* the amount Villain shoves in the pot after the flop. Since Villain doesn't have that much you should estimate the cost of seeing that flop bet is potentially (and probably) equal to the flop bet plus Villain's entire remaining stack.

I typed my reply before reading Yithkai's reply. I'd see the flop with this hand, hoping to make enough when I did make a connection to make up for the times when I didn't. I think you get more action on other hands where you want to collect if you don't play ultra-tight all the time.

Buzz

I play those tables often. You should to fold on the flop. You're looking for a flop with an ace and another wheel card or an ace a low card and a couple spades, or a four.

Yeah, in retrospect I know I should never have been in the pot at the turn, much less the river. I don't feel bad seeing the flop, even with this marginal hand. Based on the UTG's play that night, I feel he was almost always pot-raising pre-flop with a worse hand than any I would consider playing. I could have been wrong, but I do agree that I should have folded when he raised after the flop.

I think that a big area I could stand to improve is knowing how valuable my draws really are...

orangepeel, you're right, with the right flop this could have been a great hand for me. It was just good enough that I couldn't let go, for some reason, until the big river bet.

Thanks everyone.

If you're playing against a monkey, as you've described, and you've decided that, if you hit the dummy end of the straight, (a) you probably will have the best hand and (b) he still will put all of his money in, I would min-raise the flop as well and try to get to the river cheap if the turn is a miss.

Incidentally, I wouldn't fold this pre-flop, especially when facing a raise from said monkey.

I had decided those things. Can you help me understand how min-raising the flop would help me here? If he calls my min-raise, do you really think he would not continue the pot-size continuation bets? Or is that the point, that if he does, it's easier to lay the hand down?

That's up to you to decide. Generally, the response to a min-raise would be (a) a re-raise (in which case you'd fold) or (b) a call and then a check on the turn (either because he now feels he's behind or because he's going to try to check-raise you). But if you have reason to believe this player would do the unusual and call and then lead out again in many circumstances, then perhaps a min-raise is not the right play. It's really up to your read.