I think I'm spewing defending my BB.

I'll call raises with 4 face, A3[4-5] and big pairs with suited connectors like KQJJ, the more limpers pre-raise the more weaker I'm willing to go, probably get caught in on a trap hand in really loose pots ... like 9987 or 3477 but that would be like 6 way action pre-flop.

Anybody have a -BBlind/100 hands I should be striving for?

My stats over 3000 hands are:

(3-6, 5-10, 8-16, 10-20 limit Omaha 8)

VPIP$ 20 PFR$ 9 AF 1.6 WSD% 35 WSDW% 67

I will play two big and two small like QJ34, any pair and 2 wheel cards, 234x, 345x double suited, 245x suited to the high card, some slightly worse 4 low card hands like 2567, normal hands, four big cards, three big cards with a middle card dangler but suited/double suited like KQJ8ds, KKxx, double suited ace hand like AK89ds, three big cards and a wheel card, 32xx....

I think u adjust what u play depending on number of players and who is in the pot. for example i will call anyone with 3456 if its heads up or 3 way, but more than that i dump it. with more players u like a hand like JT89 more i think, so likely middle cards will flop. some of those hands i said i would ply in the big blind i would actually fold in some hands where the pot size was the same when i had to call but the players were different.

helps if u can play good postflop. any thing can come down on the flop, even bad hands can connect quite massive

one thing i will add is u can't help but lose in the big blind - the best you can do is lose less than everyone else.

For example!

Poker Stars $1/$2 Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 10 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is BB with T 6 J 9
5 folds, MP3 calls, CO raises, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls

Flop: (8 SB) 6 J Q (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds, CO calls, SB calls

Turn: (5.5 BB) Q (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO folds, SB folds

I think this is the spew.

I play tighter the more players in since i hate getting trapped in the middle.

Anyone else agree?

Angri

yeah i agree

Mmmmmmkay.

Interesting point of view. I play looser when more people come in pre flop. Most of the hands I'm defending with in the BB I'm pretty much looking to flop the nuts or get out of the pot so I'm only looking to do this with sick pot odds. For example if there is one raiser and one caller I am pitching 3456 because I don't think I flop well enough to continue for this to be a profitable call. On the other hand, if 5 people are in preflop for one raise I'll call w/ any hands that have a reasonable chance to flop big because I'm getting 10:1 on my money - I should probably run some math to see if even this is correct.

I play full ring though so I'm sure the considerations are different for 6 handed. I rarely face an outright steal raise.

I don't think we should be especially interested in playing marginal hands out of position.

Counter example -- note how I have no outs scoop, not many more to get half vs losing it all. I know alot of players that will donk bet this flop with my hand ... and alot more that would simply call.
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Poker Stars $3/$6 Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 10 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Pre Flop: (1.333 SB) Hero is BB with K A J Q
UTG raises, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 6 folds, Hero calls

Flop: (6.333 SB) A 8 3 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 calls, Hero folds

Turn: (4.167 BB) T (2 players)
UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, UTG calls

River: (6.167 BB) 8 (2 players)
UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, UTG calls

Final Pot: 8.167 BB
UTG mucks 4 A J 5
UTG+2 shows Q 2 A 4 (HI: two pair, Aces and Eights; LO: 8,4,3,2,A)
UTG+2 wins 3.917 BB
UTG+2 wins 3.917 BB
(Rake: $2.00)

That's different though. You rightly call preflop with a very sexy hand, but on that flop low is already out when you have just top pair, more than likely someone already has aces up and/or a low and you're drawing to half of a relatively small pot. You were looking for a JTx or NFD kinda flop, something like that, and you would donk out and win or have fools calling for backdoor low or hanging onto their AA.

IMO betting this flop is completely atrocious at least if its a value bet. You would have to read into peoples souls to make this a successful bluff (meaning you would need to know that they have high only hands , which is unlikely considering that you have four high cards, or you'd have a read like they can fold just aces up or bad lows). With your hand the only hand you are beating is something like AQ49 or A2JT and you're flipping against that like 52% or something.

Here's the thing - against fewer players there is a much higher chance that no one else flops it good either. This leaves the door open for an aggressive player to steal this pot. This is made even more likely to succeed by the fact that the pot is small.
In a multiway/large pot there is almost zero chance of making a steal on a funky flop and therefore no point in playing non-nut hands.

I call everytime with 3456 - this is a great hand to take 3 ways - and i would open raise it from the button in a tight game. however my main reason for playing this hand is for image building. When you show down a winner with a hand like this is tends to tilt f**k out of tight players who only play a2/a3. The value in this is massive - when those guys call you 'donkey' or 'fish' and proceed to call down every bet you make for the next hour you know your on to a good thing.

Angri

Yeah angribob is right about a hand like 3456. Vs 1 or 2 players this hand actually has a lot of potential to scoop, especially double suited because low flushes tend to win more often in shorthanded pots. You dont even need to flop an ace. But multiway its pretty much dirt.

The more people are in, the wider I make my bb range, but with the proviso that I need to hit the flop a lot stronger than normal to stay in. Unless the flop is pretty much a perfect fit I'll generally give up after that. Also, since people before you are likely to be playing low cards, I'd be more likely to call from the bb with KQ98 than 2387 since a ton of your outs are likely already in other hands.

Yeah with that KQ98 kind of hand or a JT97 hand, if you hit that JT flop or 79J flop or something like that you make a lot of money out of poeple chasing the backdoor low in a biiiig pot

But i think this is the type of hands that get lots of players including me in trouble. You have bottom 2 with a draw to 1 nut straight on a flush draw board. What do you do if you get raised on the flop? This is where i struggle the most in this game, with flops like this.

A lot of the deck is a terrible turn card. Any club stinks, even though you bet successfully bluffed(?) the turn it was still a terrible card for you. I just don't know how profitable this hand can be on this kind of board. I don't mind the call preflop, but to say you smashed this flop is an overstatement. Bottom 2 pair can get you in trouble a lot.

Edited to add: even if the offsuit 8 comes on the turn you now will more than likely be called by anyone chasing a backdoor low and the river is either going to complete a low or make you not have the nuts.

Heck, what's your line if you just get called?