Mid-limit LO8 (7 handed game)

Tight player raises UTG, another tight players calls and I call OTB w/A477 suited.

Flop: 5 3 K rainbow

Villain bets, call, call.

Turn: K (bet, call, call)

River: J

Bet, fold, ?

I hesitated, actually tanked on this for about 30 seconds and called.

Thoughts?

As a default, I probably fold to an old guy and call against a young guy.

fold this pre; especially from a tight UTG open

i would fold river; hes betting into two players on every street, even after the board pairs king; hes rarely bluffing here, and you can probably expect to see aces or A-2(3)-K-X if you call

Call is fine. Flop can be a call or a raise.

Villain was around ~40.

Now what do you do.

as a side note; if you watch him closely you might be able to pick up if he hesitates for a milisecond when he sees the turn card;

if he doesnt have a king he has a lot more to think about on the turn and it usually shows (at least in my experience)

and as always its player dependent

Fold pf and you won't have to make hero calls on the river.

The call is fine...why?

I want to see if others(anyone) is thinking what I was thinking.

Fwiw, I used to almost always snap-fold in this spot.

I like your line re:the flop btw. If no one has a K, then the two sevens are higher than the other two cards thus making a raise here(esp in my position-ie maybe allowing me a free turn if I chose) a pretty good play.

what limit is this? 8-16 would be an insta fold; 20-40 and up maybe its more interesting?

Tbh, I really didn't consider this to be a hero call. I used to think that, but I'm starting to reconsider and reevaluate some of these spots where I honestly think I may have been folding winners too often.

40/80

i dont think old guy/young guy will apply at this limit;

I can see the argument for calling, but the fact that he fires into two players instead of heads up I would probably almost always fold here barring a read

You're probably right....I never play this high, and I imagine there aren't that many players at that limit that are just -never- bluffing in that spot. (Whereas this is true of a large portion of the player pool at say a 10/20 game.)

Honestly, I don't even know of a straight O8 game that regularly runs higher than 20/40 outside of the WSOP.

I suppose I would call but now I feel underqualified to answer.

I don't think old guy/young guy applies at any limit tbh. I've seen plenty of old timers bluff! (You must never play stud lol)

No one raised the turn so imho villain has an easier time bluffing in this spot.

My read was that villain played good cards but had a tendency to get slightly lost post flop; it's almost hard to describe, sorry.

I've played all limits, people bluff everywhere. The only difference is at the lower limits, maybe the player is just easier to read or doesn't tell a believable-enough story where his bluffs are going to be successful.

And, I'm only interested in why you would call, but not because the limit was higher; this really wasn't a game filled with stellar poker players! Seriously, your opinion is highly valued to say the least, so.

This was part of a mix game at Borgata.

~I'm never folding this hand OTB especially for just one raise.~

A477 vs a tight utg raise. 👍🏼

i'd overlimp this hand pre, but def fold for 2bets. if it's my first hand with villain, i pay off the river and see what he shows up with. if villain ends up having somewhat typical open limping/raising ranges in early position, you can prob find a fold.

Certainly there are opponents that are capable of bluffing here at all limits. But not -every- opponent is capable of bluffing. There are some opponents that are -never- bluffing here. And I do think these opponent are (a) more likely to be older and (b) more likely to be playing lower stakes games.

Without a strong impression that you are up against such an opponent, I think calling is pretty reasonable considering you are getting 9-1.

A large percentage of villain's opening range will be naked low hands, and most of these hands will bet this flop. I think many of these hands will slow down on the turn, but not always. And once they have bluffed the turn without getting raised, they may assume no one has a K and might as well follow up on the river. And the naked low hands don't need to follow through all that often for a call to be profitable given the huge odds you are getting.

Preflop is close. I think calling is OK if your A is suited.

Without knowing any specifics i think it's a call against unknowns today and that likely wasn't the case 10 years ago.

Why is just a simple price vs range of hands that get to the river with villains line. There should be enough low wraps that most people take a stab with and then there's 1 high wrap and some low draws + pair/2pair that some people turn in to bluffs with some frequency just to fold some middle pairs or splits since they are iffy to call with in 3way pots (esp. if the button bets).

Hu villain could likely just ck/call A2QT or A34Q type of hands but 3way they are kinda better of as bluffs since they don't really function as bluff catchers anymore.

Also the villain is kinda the only one that can believably have anything that's not just a varying degree of crap. Slowplaying the turn for V2 or Hero only makes a little sense if they got to turn by missing a preflop 3 bet and there's very few K's for either of the players that could miss a raise on the flop or turn.

Something like 23KQ type of holdings are the only strong hands that can get to the river with some frequency and even those would be more common with suited flops. So from villain perspective his opponents ranges very often cap out at A48J type of holdings.

Easy decision to continue for one bet... but a much tougher decision for two bets. The problem is we should fold unless the flop hits us squarely, but if the flop hits us marginally, there will be too much money in the pot to easily fold to a single flop bet.

Mainly I'd be playing this to flop a flush or a flush draw. Secondarily, maybe we'll make a winning low. And about one time in eight we'll see a flop with a seven.

Not quite good enough for Hero At least that flop takes out A3XY and 23XY for low... but there's still the strong possibility of A2XY. And we're still drawing for low. If we had a made low at this point, that would be one thing - but we're still drawing for low.

I hate to fold to the inevitable bet, but I think that's the play.

I think calling here, despite the seeming 8 to 1 odds, is a mistake. (They're not 8 to 1 implied pot odds).

Now it's hard to get out... and looking ahead to the river, it will be hard to get out there too.

Tough decision. We have two pairs, kings over sevens. But either opponent could have trip kings or better, or just two pairs, kings over jacks, or the pre-flop raiser might have aces over kings. I don't like it, but having come this far, I'd be inclined to call.

OK.

Some of the time you'll win here. I hope this was one of them.

Buzz

You certainly can't fold the flop. Either a 2 or 6 give you nut/2nd nut, and a 7 gives you a pretty strong hand both ways too. I actually like raising the flop if you at least have a backdoor FD.

My last posts were for 35KJK runout. With 35KKJ from villain perspective his opponents ranges are very capped and calling is even better for the hero.

Shouldn't type anything before the second cup coffee in the mornings.

The only time a guy is leading into two people on both flop and turn w/o a K when K pairs is when he holds A24, and even then most would check so that they don't have to call a double size raise on the turn. Because you have two 4s in your hand and it is likely that the middle player holds at least A2 or A4, combo wise this just isn't likely. If your up against a guy capable of value betting QQ or AA, your absolute toast. I don't call the river here after this action even getting the price. You have to take into account your blockers and the infrequency of someone triple barreling with air into 2 other opponents. Forget about anyone thinking of "capped ranges" in a 40-80 game.