Mid stakes full ring. Game is playing very loose and aggressive. Villain 1 is very loose preflop but plays a little snugger after the flop. Villain 2 is a good hand reader but right now he is stuck and steaming. Villain 3 is all over the place(sometimes he's very tight, other times he just wants to gamble with subpar hands).

V 1 raises. V 2 reraises. V 3 calls. Two other players call. I call from the sb with:

A3K9

Big blind folds.

Flop comes: 994

I lead. V1 raises. V2 calls. V3 calls(!). Two players behind him both fold. I decide to just call.

Turn: Offsuit 8

I like this card because it doesn't complete the flush and I believe that I'm still ahead, so I bet but now V1 folds. V2 and V3 call.

River: Offsuit 7(Final board: 99487 no flush).

Who's betting? Who's checking? And why.

It seems very likely that at least one Villain has A2, and possible that both do. This means two things.

First, assuming you can't scoop, this means that a river bet will win at most .5 bets when your high is good and both villains stick around, will win nothing when your high is good and one villain (with A2) calls, and will lose a bet when your high is beat.

Second, because both villains could try to bet and raise with A2, you really can't fold this street regardless of the action.

So for a bet to be profitable, your high needs to be good -and- both Vs need to call twice as often as your high is beat. I don't think you're quite there. I would check and call regardless of the river action.

Wow! Wild!

In my opinion you missed. But you do have trip nines with top kicker plus second nut low and the pot is so large that you're stuck.

But I can't tell whether or not V2 or V3 started with a nine and now has made a full house.

I think the pot is so large that an opponent with a straight should be stuck too. Still, you never know. Opponents sometimes do strange things.

So I'd go ahead and bet.

Buzz

i 3bet flop

I am also 3 betting flop

this

this type of game sounds like you wont lose action by 3 betting

I think 3-bet flop or check-raise would be optimal. I prefer also bet the river and call if they reraise. I think it's maybe 50% change that there isn't A2 and even is it, your hi is probably good... I don't hate river check call either.. It's marginal imo. In the flop you definitely should have been 3-bet.

Ps. Sorry my English. Would been nice to see what happened. Gl

Pretty good english

I'd chk/raise the flop as default. Having said that leading worked out perfectly and for some reason you forgot to 3bet which is even more strange given your turn bet. I'd chk the river a str8 is never folding but may not bet and two bets going in on the river sucks for our hand now. All kinds of situations could come up on the river depending on action that my warrant trying to squeeze a str8.

i think donking out on the flop is definitely best.

3betting flop and check call river
turn bet is fine

Preflop is optimal. I bet/3bet on the flop to charge backdoors, just calling is a mistake imo. Turn lead is a must. On the river I slightly prefer check-calling to bet-calling, but these two options should not be too different in EV. We are clearly committed to the pot.

V1's line also seems beyond horrible.

it may be ambitious, but not horrible. i can see some hands that seem reasonable

Like weak flush draw + poor low draw? Any paint pair probably got good odds to mine a two-outer...

op says he's loose, so yeah. prob a bunch of different backdoorish weak 2 way type hands maybe including stuff like a866.

I think it's very close between c/c and b/c. Given your reads, I'd def bet the river.

think i'd usually bet without really thinking about it, but this river is never getting c/'ed through and 2+ bets going in on river doesn't seem good. so yeah, i guess c/c anything.

Why? I would c/r or c/3 for a variety of reasons. What other hands do you donk on this flop? Seems like that range is super tiny. A huge majority of the time you don't have a 9 in your hand.

Do you really raise or 3-bet in this spot very often without a 9 in your hand?
Given how huge the pot is preflop and how unusual this situation is, I don't think it's all that important to be concerned with balance here. Playing more or less face-up is a small cost for protecting our equity.

Preflop - I like folding tbh and when I enter pot i like jamming it.. especially live... online I prob fold more I am guessing this is live? (wish I knew if this was live or online and stakes...) anyways I know people LOVE suited hands but this hand is deceptively weaker than I'd like to have with this table dynamic in the SB.. OTB I never EVER fold this in LO8 to any amount of bets fwiw

OTF - as played I like bet jamming.. if I just call with plans to lead safe turn I think we are losing a lot of value/equity by essentially giving free cards and allowing for board development (variance) to dictate ... on bad turns (broadway and/or clubs) we can re-evaluate and make hero folds

OTT - as played check raise.. c/c is fine ... leading is meh okay

OTR - as played check call

this..


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imo if we bet call flop we should not lead turn as much because the only logical reason (plz correct my ignorance) we call flop is to disguise our strength... leading turn especially this turn (flush misses low back doors and common 9x combos fill up) is strong imo and our fold equity is high (basically a stop and go) .. and since I don't like checking OTT I would rather take the strongest line

I agree... I don't think we c/r here without a 9 or 4's full (with redraw/s)...

being that a 3 counterfeits or BD low draw and we are dominated by 94xx.. we aren't really redrawing to the nuts when we are coolered.. and we are chopping with A9xx so a c/r line loses lots of it's value and isolates us against mostly stronger ranges.. basically we get worse/draws to fold and action from hands that have us dominated

Gotta 3 bet flop since you're first to act and will be betting any non club. Might as well take the lead now. You aren't going to be losing anyone anyways when they called 2 already.

I bet the river. They could both be on a2. I find it hard to believe that someone could raise this river with just a straight since your hand is AT LEAST a 9 before the river and if you fire the river it's going to freeze people. Straights without a2 won't be raising you.

I think folding pre is lol. Don't mind a four bet, but call probably best.
Lead I love, three bet is easy.
River I lead and don't like it.
But your hand looks strong if you lead. And less likely weak full houses and straights raise river. Check looks like a9 and it's just too obvious

First of all, I am NEVER folding a suited AK3 hand even for three bets, position or no position. In a game such as this, I think I'd be passing up on too much potential value if I elected to just toss this away.

The consensus here seems to think that I missed a bunch of value by not three betting the flop. I agree. But I was looking for a safe turn(one that wasn't a club), but maybe the better line is to try and extract that value NOW(flop) and then I can always opt for the c/c if the turn card is a club.

I fired a bet out very quickly on the river, one player called and I was raised. It went: call, call: the raisor showed QQ97 for a rivered full house and me and the other player got quartered with our A3(he tabled A356, no club draw).

And, even if I knew that he wasn't holding the lock for the low, I don't even think that I could get him to fold an A3 had I decided to try and reraise it as a means to lock up half the pot.

So, whether or not to c/c the end or to b/c is pretty close as RichGangi pointed out.

But, the reason why I chose to lead here was to block/prevent someone betting w/a straight, or, more commonly perhaps, betting/raising with nut low+pair as a means to get me to fold if I didn't have much back up etc...in other words, my bet was meant partially for value but maybe a bit more of it was for pot control. But alas, no such luck.

As an aside, the original raisor, and the one who raised the flop/folded the turn claimed to have had AA. And, I believe he might opt to play AA that way as an attempt to go heads up with me, but, when he sees that the field behind him isn't going anywhere, he elects for the early exit, which is a good move if you don't have any potential runners for low. But why he felt the need to tell me what he had was beyond me.