Blinds were 80/160. My stack = 4700 BB's stack = 6200

I have Ac As 4c Js.

I bet pot Preflop. (560)

It folds around to BB who requests time and Calls.

Flop Kh 2c 5c

I bet pot he requests time and Calls.

Turn Kd

I bet pot and he goes all in. I call.. Already commited at this point.

River 2h

He shows Ah Ks 8s 10s


Elminates me... I'm fuming mad after this hand... Is this a horrendous beat guys? What business did he have playing that hand?

he had every business playing this hand. he can play this hand vs me anytime. tough beat. i wish all would play like that

256$ later... It's not the buyin I'm pissed about, I wanted to run very deep in this tourny and was looking forward to it for a couple of weeks!

Why did you pot it on the turn? Could have should have slowed down. You would still be in tourney!

Of course you had better hand pre and on flop you were still lokking great. Bad turn=slow down. GG

I potted it because on the flop I liked my NutFlushDraw, LowDraw, Wheel Draw and Top pair. I was going all in on that hand no matter what. I just can't believe the crap my opponent was playing!

Well believe it. Does it really surprise you?

You have a nice starting hand, better than BB's starting hand. But BB's starting hand is still in the top third of starting hands. And he can't tell, when you raise pre-flop, what kind of hand you have. For all he knows, you might be trying to "steal" his blind. So he calls time and decides to defend, heads-up. (I'd defend here too). (He must have checked first). He flopped top pair (kings) plus a low draw on a flop that, from his perspective, may have counterfeited your own low draw. He can't tell if you're making a Texas hold 'em continuation type bet, a "position" bet, or a legitimate Omaha-8 flop fit bet. He decides not to back down this time, bites the bullet, and calls. (Again, he must have checked first). Your bet here might work if he's not pot committed and if he doesn't have a king. But as it turns out the turn was a miracle king for him, and so he check-raises for value. I think your mistake was betting the pot after he checked. You already have two of the aces. He probably has a very wide range for defending his blind before the flop, but what can he have after the flop to justify calling your pot sized flop bet? Top two pairs, top and bottom pairs, a set, - and top pair with a good low draw all loom as possibilities. After this flop and turn, against any of these, your pair of aces doesn't look great. (You still have the nut club flush draw and second nut low draw, but the board is paired, weakening your nut club flush draw). By betting this turn, you're basically over-playing your aces and draws. I think that's a common mistake in this game. No. You gambled that he didn't have a king but he did. I'd probably play it too under these conditions.

Buzz

that AK108 hand is a p.o.s. and Buzz screw you.

CardFairy - I just spent maybe a half hour trying to write you a good response. (And I think it is a good response).

In my opinion, you're way out of line to write "screw you" to anyone who tries to give you a decent, honest response.

A friend of mine could say "screw you" to me and I wouldn't be offended. I'd consider it a friendly kind of male humor.

But I can't tell if that's how you mean it or not. (Maybe it's better to leave it that way).

If you did that to any other poster, I'd probably write you a personal message, and I might give you infraction points and/or a temporary ban. Since you did it to me in the open forum, this message from me to you is here in the open forum and there's no penalty this time.

Please be polite to and respectful of other posters, including me, when you post on this forum.

Buzz

Though not in the tourneys, I've been losing with AA23, AA24, AA34 lately, especially to garbage BB hands. I know when you expect to win pots with premium hands and end up losing, it hurts way more. But this happens all the time. Play more and you'll realize this isn't that big of a deal... Move on, **** happens.

Buzz,

I got a lot out of your response - thanks for the reasoned explanation

A-

Thanks.

Buzz

Buzz your response was right on the money! OP will never learn, if he can't take some constructive criticism...someone run the #'s was he 60/40 fav pre-folp? OMG OMG I lost how did that happen???

Once the turn hit you were big dog.

pokenum -o8 ac as 4c js - ah ks 8s ts -- kh 2c 5c kd
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 40 enumerated boards containing 5c 2c Kd Kh
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As Js Ac 4c 10 10 30 0 15 0 0 0.362
Ks Ts 8s Ah 21 30 10 0 3 12 0 0.637

I get hero as 73:27 favorite preflop and 86:14 on the flop.

I think Buzz does a great job analyzing the hand as well. I personally think the Villains hand is weak for PLO8 (especially out of position, this hand is better in Limit than pot limit).

Big reason for Villain to call here is that Hero is willing to go to the death here with his cards no matter what hits and he gets lucky as well

If Buzz likes Vodka then I'd say in barkeep's earshot "Hey Buzz, screwdriver you!"

+1 on the good analysis by Buzz.

Hi Betty - I agree Villain's hand is too weak to voluntarily play in full game or six-max. But in this situation, Villain is defending his big blind to a possible steal attempt. Villain might fold if he could see Hero's hand, but Villain cannot (we presume) see Hero's cards. Thus Villain cannot know he is up against double suited aces with a wheel card.

And so Villain defends his big blind, heads-up, on the first betting round. Seems very logical to me, because rightly or wrongly, I'd defend here with Villain's starting hand too. Villain's hand, though not in the voluntarily playable class, in my humble opinion, is not as bad as O.P. seems to think. The ProPokerTools ranking system rates Villain's hand #5009 out of 16432. That's for multiple opponent play rather than heads-up play.

Heads-up against a random hand, Villain is actually a ~53 to 47 favorite:
http://www.propokertools.com/simulat...tionEditor.jsp

Heads-up, against a top 50% hand, Villain is only a slight ~48.3 to 51.7 under-dog:
http://www.propokertools.com/simulat...25&h3=&h4=&h5=
I don't think Villain has a very good starting hand for either fixed-limit or pot-limit.

But there are different considerations when defending your big blind.

Especially in a tournament (but also in ring game play) some of your opponents will always be looking for an easy target for a blind steal. I confess I'm one of those who takes the tenacity of a blind poster into consideration when at that stage of the tournament when blind steals should be the rage. Thus it makes sense to me for someone to tend to defend his/her big blind with an upper third rated starting hand.

Then when one-on-one after the flop, how to play depends on your flop fit and also on your opponent.

After this flop, as you have shown with your simulation, at least against Hero's hand, Villain's hand is worse than before the flop. But when Hero again bets the pot on the second betting round, Villain may suspect Hero wants him (Villain) to fold. And at this point, Villain may suspiciously wonder, "Why would Hero want to push me out of the pot if he has a nice fit with this flop?"

In other words, Villain may continue on the second betting round largely because he thinks Hero doesn't want him to continue.

Often doing the thing your opponent doesn't want you to do is the best thing.

Then on the third betting round, Villain clearly out-plays Hero (and perhaps sensing the ability to do that is part of Villain's motivation for defending on the first two betting rounds).

Buzz

LOL @ we presume

and I too get value out of your posts Buzz...thanks