I doubt I even register on Dave's, or most 2+2er's radar screens, primarily because I rarely venture beyond the $200PL games. I have no idea how Dave and I have fared against each other, but I doubt the results are significant either way.

However, I did want to say that I thoroughly enjoy those occasions when Dave and I do share tables because the table dynamics are noticeably different than what I'm used to. It's clear that Dave has a reputation for playing a wide range of cards, so he almost always gets action. His aggressive playing style is usually infectious and livens up the game. That change makes it hard for a serial limper like me, but the learning experience is usually worth the discomfort.

Since I'm still learning the game with only one year of experience at these limits, I find the changing table dynamics fascinating to observe. If nothing else it has helped me realize how my own table image and reputation impacts the way people play against me. Sadly though, this knowledge has neither increased the frequency with which other players call me down when I have the nuts - or decreased the times they call me when I'm bluffing. :-)

LOL @ Idiot...Congrats on thinking that open shoving $3100 into a $20 is a skillful display of poker...Or limp calling $1000+ cold with AQ65ds...You're just pissed because Dave pretty much summed up your game to a "T"...I guarantee if you played him in a PLO8 game he would own your stupid ass...

pics?

For someone reason you take it really person when I correctly describe your approach and many others' "flipping". I never called you bad, since I've never actually witnessed you playing poker. When I call it "bingo poker", I'm making a generalization about the approach on Full Tilt. If you have something else to say about it, or think there are a lot more skills involved other than pushing the slider to the right... post an intelligent answer.

O.K. guys, keep it in this thread and I'll let the trash talk run for another couple of days.

And then let's get back to discussing tactics and strategy, please.

Dave - Those two pictures are priceless!

Got me roaring with laughter.

Thanks.

Buzz

let me say something i play at full tilt the 5 10 NL and the 1 2 and 2 4 when it runs. Idiot you are an idiotic player. Breal is not a good player either but at least he has an understanding of the game. You do not idiot. You go all in and pray. usually you are way down and then just keep going all in with kk79 and praying. you have no skill as i remember you playing lower limits and trying to play a skillful version and getting killed. you are a poor man's predator06. He has no skill either but at least he is trying to play Pot limit.(though he is a losing pot limit player) I understand fold equity and getting pots like that. But you are out of your mind idiot. Even if you are a winning player at NL you would not try to claim you have any knowledge of the game. You have a system and that is cool. It works then continue. But do not think if we were playing a pot limit tourney ( which you would never do) you would get any respect.

This kind of reminds me, nobody's asked for a 'well' in about a year. It would be nice to bring back a monthly well.

well u guys can check idiot29's stats on pokerstars in his tourney play, he can play PL tourneys very well, he has a style in NL and it works very well for him, so maybe u guys should be quiet and realize that he is just trying to make money, not make friends or try to prove to people that he can play....as for me, dave, i learned the game by myself and i have more knowledge of this game at age 22 than most people will have in their whole life, i highly doubt most of u would ever play me heads up whether it be PL or NL

hahahaha heads up rakeback!! no lmit or pot limit hi lo heads up is for idiots who love rake.

Hi. More often than not I beat $2/$4, $3/$6, and $5/$10 PLO8 whether it be full-ring, 6-max, or with even less players. I have my very good days and I have my very bad days too... I play a very high variance style, and it doesn't help that I play so many tables. At the end of every year, there are extremely few O8 players who will have any sort of net profit. This thread was started by someone who doesn't know me at all and has hardly ever played with me before. Yet, he wanted to share that he respects my game.

There are 10 or less active online PLO8 players that I generally feel outclassed by overall, and they know my game and I know theirs. They are not regular posters here. I have no idea what your own screennames are... the only thing that seems apparent is that you have poor English skills and are a self-proclaimed expert. Nobody here is going to respect your opinion if don't post some results, reveal your identity, or simply provide constructive criticism on actual hands.

Honestly, this forum could do with a lot less of you gossiping trolls.

Wow tournament PLO8...You know because that is EXACTLY the same as cash game PLO8 and stuff...

I am sorry that my initial post has caused all of this anger between people. I think that its ridiculous that an OT thread has gotten way the most posts then really any other threads. Also, I think that many people have their own style for different games. I was just getting back into the swing of the game and stuff like that and was playing some HU v dave and was playing some other tables with him where the only person at the table that i was like "damn. i dont want really want to play a pot with" was him. I dont see why this has turned into such a pissing contest with all of the anger. And yes there are some people's game that I respect more than others, but if they are able to make money doing what they do, then good for them, they have different priorities. One of the reasons that I sat down to play db was not b/c I thought that it was the way to make the most money, but to try and get better about the game. I guess what I was wondering and trying to say is that there are some ppl that you play that to get better. I dont know, just kinda rambling

everything degenerates into an e-peen contest in this forum, which is why I don't post here very often.

it's a shame the majority of your 3k+ posts/year are dispersed elsewhere.

most of your other time is spent lurking on sharkscope or being the hall monitor on UB, FTP, and PS... typically games much higher than you play in, I presume? you are 30+ years old, a self proclaimed "micro stakes pro", an internet fan boy, forum junkie, and full-time railbird? COOL!

sorry, just felt I should clear the air on this one.

Excellent point, and one that's probably not emphasized enough. A lot can be learned by observing internet games too, you're getting tons less information... but the pro is that you know it won't cost anything.

Anyways I remember feeling really intimated when I first even attempted the $1/$2 PLO8 and NLO8 tables online, and every jump upwards thereafter. Most decent online players are either too busy or unwilling to really talk strategy, but I think if you get to see all the plays they make, especially in the proper contexts, you start to understand their mentality and strategies a little. Out of context and in vacuums, a lot of standard bluffs and light call downs look totally absurd.

To this day, when I'm playing against solid online players I will try to run some tests of their plays to see if I can make them profitable for myself too. Generally I am only concerned with 2nd level thinking and higher. Also, I really feel that I learn a lot by playing against a lot of maniacs, because their books of plays always differ from my own.

my point was that Idiot29 could easily play PL if he wanted too, but he finds no reason to because he does so well with his style at NL, i never once said that tourneys and cash games were the same.......all im sayin is that there is no reason to criticize another persons playing style just because it is different than yours

maybe, i haven't seen evidence of this though

makes sense

the reason a lot of us are touchy about NLO8 is that we are looking for larger edges to push, and we see this style as destructive to our own profitabilities and possibly the online O8 ecosystem (in my opinion). i do understand the concept of picking up dead money and maximizing fold equity. i also recognize that their is no clear cut means to establishing pushing/calling/re-raising/folding ranges in the current NLO8 state. the NLO8 game of chicken is played with suited Aces, AAxx, and KKxx 90% of the time.

my "neural database" (brain) has recorded that Idiot and the other players don't actually care about the kicker with their Ace+wheel hands very often and they also don't usually care which or if any part of their hand is suited or not. naturally this system will vary from player to player, but i've played in and witnessed a lot of games with Idiot29 or the many people who adopted his system.

if some NLO8 winning player would like to submit counter evidence, thoughts, or empirical evidence that suggests the contrary i would really like to hear it. i guess Idiot29 could have some "super secret hand range strategy" that somehow eludes every single player who has seen his apparent strategies. seems a little unlikely to me though.

when i read your posts it seem pretty obvious that you worship the ground your buddy walks on and are too results-oriented. it's like crowning someone the world's best silver dollar flipper. from your tableside chat and forum posts i've also deducted that you are incapable of thinking objectively, so any discussion you are involved in isn't actually a discussion.

lolllllll, i worship the ground my buddy walks on?...are you that ******ed? i am simply sticking up for a friend, u prob wouldnt know cuz u don't have any....and reults-oriented?....isnt that all that a poker player should look for, is results??....who cares what anybody else thinks, the only thing that matters in poker is results...I like how you can say that i am incapable of thinking objectively just because i dont see things the way that you do.......yes i understand that his style of playing is different than many other players....but dave u think you r just the greatest player in the world and that your style is the way that this game should be played...i respect your PL play and i also realize that you would not play me because u know it would not be profitable for u in the long run, i dont give out my own strategies on here for a reason but that doesn't mean i am not intelligent enough to do so........just face it, poker is about making money and that is all, u people can come up with all your strategies/technology/stats, whatever the hell else u people use to determine ur play, to me its a bunch of horse**** and u just need to play your own game and not let a computer decide if what you are doing is wrong/right

This is some of the most pathetic trash talking I've read in a long while.

You all need to go back and read some of Wintermute's posts to learn how its done.

-g

one thing your forgetting though rake is that dave is result oreinted.... cant u see by numerous cashes he has in tournaments.... and how many posts he has on this site.... all that tells me is he is a damn loser who has nothing better to do then to sit around and leave posts on this worthless forum.... We will be alot better off if we just realize that dave is the best and no one can take a different approach to the game because thats not how dave be gay would do it. This is my last post on this subject because its ******ed.....what it comes down to is daves the best hi low player that ever lived based on his results and posts and once everyone learns that we will all be alot better off.....

yes, i cower in the corner when i see you log in and i immediately sit out on all tables while gripping my teddy bear.

i've been restraining myself, but i view you as the typical over-aggro donk and a veritable payoff wizard. if i could sit down a table with you and 7 clones of yourself, i'd be all set for an early retirement... maybe somewhere tropical. please NEVER CHANGE THE WAY YOU PLAY, promise me that and i'll wire a few bones for your trouble.

dude, get a **** clue. i sit down at my computer 5+ days/week and play heads up until the tables fill in. i think it's pretty clear that i take on 99% of oncomers, something very few players have the balls to do.

what's worse, my long-term membership to a poker discussion site, or people like yourself who troll forums and probably other resources looking for strategy or gossip, yet remaining anonymous over the long-term?

it's funny that you will never address the issue of "flipping" or reckless gambling although that's a recurring theme in all NLO8 discussion. are you really in this much denial?

I agree that this thread is a waste of time, because no one wants to actually talk strategy or even discuss edges.

Buzz - maybe we should let some other posters get some closing thoughts in for the next few days and lock yet another useless gossip post afterwards. it might be nice to actually get more hands posted and talk about something worthwhile.

u r an idiot, plain and simple, im done discussing this because u only understand one way of playing poker (yours), i cant wait to meet u in the wsop u better keep up on your protein and spend plenty of time in the gym.....its just weird how im such a donk but u always sit out when the table busts and its me and you left...u keep ur mouth shut and i am done talkin on this stupid subject...
wishing you the worst,
shortstop2727

it's unclear to me why people constantly assume that i'm interested in the WSOP or mingling with unfriendly online poker players.

flying across the country to play in high variance events is not my idea of a good time or money investment.

i'm quite happy playing online poker in bed while drinking overpriced Starbucks, i enjoy my life as it is, and have minimal interest in pissing contests. if this disappoints you, i can direct you to a PO BOX where you can forward hate mail and anything else that will ease your burden. i'm sure you're quite a big tough guy and i hope that fulfills all the inadequacies of your life.

It's kind of sick, but this is actually my second fantasy, right after being GM of a major-league baseball team.

But I'm pretty sure you've destroyed me on Full Tilt (and probably Pokerstars, before I left), so you killed that dream. Thanks.