Hello,

I'm starting to learn PLO/8 and would appreciate some advice on 5 hands I played the other day. Any help would be greatly appreciated...


Hand #1...
Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

MP: $79.30
CO: $14.15
BTN: $36.95
SB: $66.00
Hero (BB): $52.10
UTG: $19.25

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with 3 A Q T
1 fold, MP calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, BTN calls $0.50, SB calls $0.25, Hero checks

Flop: ($2.50) 4 K J (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.40, MP raises to $4.80, CO folds, BTN calls $4.80, SB folds, Hero calls $2.40

Turn: ($16.90) 9 (3 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, BTN bets $16.10, Hero folds, MP folds


... His turn bet clearly says "I have QT". Correct? I thought folding
was the play because he could have a spade draw and be freerolling me
when stacks were still fairly deep.


Hand #2
Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

CO: $55.05
BTN: $68.85
SB: $49.45
Hero (BB): $52.05
UTG: $49.60
MP: $75.80

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with T A 8 A
2 folds, CO calls $0.50, BTN calls $0.50, SB raises to $2.50, Hero raises to $8.50, 2 folds, SB raises to $26.50, Hero raises to $52.05 all in, SB calls $22.95 all in

Flop: ($99.90) 4 2 K

Turn: ($99.90) J

River: ($99.90) Q


... How acceptable is it to get all-in preflop with AAxx in PLO/8? My
intuition tells me its a much better play in PLO/8, than PLO. Correct?
My opponent in this hand was very bad so I felt it was acceptable.
Against any decent opponent I don't know what the correct play would
be.


Hand #3
Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

UTG: $43.55
MP: $130.05
CO: $216.95
BTN: $30.60
SB: $72.80
Hero (BB): $46.00

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with K 9 A A
2 folds, CO calls $0.50, 1 fold, SB calls $0.25, Hero raises to $2, CO calls $1.50, SB calls $1.50

Flop: ($6.00) K 2 7 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5.70, CO folds, SB calls $5.70

Turn: ($17.40) 9 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $16.55, SB raises to $65.10 all in, Hero calls $21.75 all in

River: ($94.00) 8 (2 players - 2 are all in)


... Too over-aggressive here? Or did the turn card make this a bit of
a cooler by forcing me to bet?


Hand #4
Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

MP: $66.05
CO: $30.00
BTN: $24.20
SB: $62.85
Hero (BB): $46.50
UTG: $26.25

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with 9 7 J 6
1 fold, MP calls $0.50, CO checks, 2 folds, Hero checks

Flop: ($1.75) 5 4 8 (3 players)
Hero bets $1.70, MP calls $1.70, CO calls $1.70

Turn: ($6.85) K (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $6.55, CO calls $6.55, Hero calls $6.55

River: ($26.50) J (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $25.20, CO calls $21.25 all in, Hero folds


... I should have check-raised the turn. With all that action on the
river I thought I was getting quartered and folded.


Hand #5
Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

MP: $79.30
CO: $14.15
BTN: $36.95
SB: $66.00
Hero (BB): $52.10
UTG: $19.25

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with 3 A Q T
1 fold, MP calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, BTN calls $0.50, SB calls $0.25, Hero checks

Flop: ($2.50) 4 K J (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.40, MP raises to $4.80, CO folds, BTN calls $4.80, SB folds, Hero calls $2.40

Turn: ($16.90) 9 (3 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, BTN bets $16.10, Hero folds, MP folds


... Similar to hand #1 I guess. I folded the nuts because I thought I
could be getting freerolled by a flush draw. Bad?

Terrible.

Bet less on the flop (like 2/3 the pot), you want weak hands to come along.

Bet the max on the turn (you have redraw to higher straight and you want the spade flush to pay).


Isshhhh. I hate it. Your AA hand is weak. You'll get mixed responses on this one.



Check-fold flop.

wat

1. lead turn (1/2 pot)
2. lead river (1/2 pot)
3. ???
4. profit

Yes, BAD.

You check too much man. And forget about check-raising, just lead the betting.

You're overthinking things by folding nut hands, then later playing one pair hands when check-raised.

Also notice that you posted 5 hands that gave you trouble, and all of them were OOP. I know you were the blind in most of them but it goes to enforce my #1 rule in plo8=play hands in position.

Welcome to O8.

We would appreciate it if you post only 1 hand to a thread. This is so that we don't get confused or give up halfway through your post. That said, I'm going to take a stab at this.

#1. Even in big bet O8, I hate folding the made str8 on the turn where the flush or house haven't come yet. I think you're giving away equity, and also (just as important) you'll get a rep for someone who can be pushed around. Villain called and bet and
raise cold on the flop, so your read isn't unreasonable, but I think you're ahead or not getting freerolled often enough to call.

I defer to someone who does it better to explain the math of it. They might even say that I'm wrong. But I hope not.

#2. I like this line a lot, but you'll get good players that disagree.

It's probably better in PLO than PLO8. This hand is probably a stronger PLO hand than a PLO8 hand. But there are definitely times to push with aces in PLO8. As aces go, these are pretty weak.

Your read also supports your play. In position, consider flatcalling so that you can see more cards and have more opportunities to outplay an inferior opponent.

#3. This is what not to do with aces.

Yep.

#4. I don't mind your soft play of this hand thru the turn.

No. You face 3 way action on the turn with a really vulnerable hand. At least one of your opponents has the low, and at least one of them is freerolling you. Possibly the low, the flush draw, and a FH draw are all out there, and you're ahead but drawing really thin. And you're out of position. Keep the pot as small as possible.

I would think that you're getting quartered a lot less than you think. People play a lot worse cards that you might expect sometimes.

#5. I still hate it. This is almost always going to be a chop. I need an affirmative reason (notes from past play, e.g. this fish loves to play QT) to fold.


I hope that this is helpful. And accurate. Someone will chime in if they disagree.

@ 1st hand - no need to lay it down. He sure does have QT. But there is no indication whatsoever saying he has the flush draw. Call.

@ 2nd - pushing AAxx preflop with practically no chance to make a low is clearly -EV

@ 3rd - on the turn there is no low hand yet, but villain goes all in, so he has a strong high hand AND could be drawing to a low hand, while you have no chance for a low, and top two pair which really isn't that strong in OH8. Fold.

@ 4th - if you get involved with a hand like 9 7 J 6, you hope for a straight. Problem is, the straight has to be below your cards, so the hand you are hoping for automatically creates a low that you can't win. So from the beginning you are going for half a pot. -EV.

@ 5th - same as 1st.

I would suggest read many threads from here before you post anymore. Not to be harsh, but you played most of those hands absolutely horribly. First, its not bad strategy to try to get all your money in if you have the nuts. You wouldn't want to do this with the 4 to 8 straight hand, but DONT FOLD THE NUTS ESPECIALLY DONT FOLD THE NUTS ON THE RIVER. You will not be losing much value

Hmmm, there is no flush draw on the turn, and you can always get away easy if the board pairs on the river and they show a lot of strength.

I'm pretty sure betting is +EV. And if one guys has A2 and the other the straight, all he loses is only 1/4 of what he bet.

He can either:

1. Check-fold flop
2. Lead all streets

And I hate #1.

Check-calling makes no sense since there's a chance he can win the pot by betting if no one has A2, and he loses value when he checks and the other 2 guys check and they don't have the straight.


And to Stosh:

Getting quartered is part of the game, there's nothing you can do about it. As long as you quarter your opponents more often than they quarter you then you will do fine.

Getting quartered when all you have is the high occurs way less often than when you have a low and a weak or no high. Those are the spots you must avoid, ending up in big pots with only the low and a tiny pair, or a low and 2 pair when there is a flush on the board (and all it takes for your opponent to quarter you is a low and 2 flush cards).

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. That was only my second PLO/8 session ever. I have a looong way to go with this game, and am quite aware I suck. Hopefully if I stick with it, I will get to a competent level. I have had great success in NLHE cash for a long time now, and am interested in broadening my poker horizons a bit. I read the Hwang chapter on PLO/8, watched a few PLO/8 vids from StoxPoker, CR's, etc and jumped right in. As bad as the five hands I posted were, I'm only down about 1.5 buy-ins over 1,000 hands. Again, thanks for advising a total noob like me. 'Stosh

In hand #4,　on the river you will win half more often than you get quartered. Everyone plays A2, but there aren't a lot of playable hands with 6-7 in them. Besides, 3-way closing the action, you can't lose much even if you are quartered. Your opponents are the ones begging to get quartered, especially the CO.

Hand 1 - folding is too weak (why call on flop at all if you are going to fold this turn??). Even if you fear a freeroll, it's worth remembering that you have your own redraw to a better straight. And even without the redraw you have odds to fade a freeroll. The only question here would be whether your read on villain is good enough to justify calling instead of raising.
Hand 2 - I'm generally happy getting it all-in preflop with any AALx hand. Against a really tight opponent I might hesitate, but it's worth remembering that AAxx vs AAxx matchups don't happen that often; I seem to recall that you need to play about 400 hands for every time you will be involved in an AAxx vs AAxx hand (full ring). So your opponent probably doesn't have AAxx, which means you are a favorite (though not a big one since as someone else said this is a weak AA hand).
Hand 3 - don't raise preflop, any high-only hand is kind of speculative in O8, so you want bigger implied odds and can assume your equity doesn't justify bloating the pot. Check/fold flop, you missed the flush draw and/or set you were looking for.
Hand 4 - place to fold would be the flop (if you were going to fold, which I'm not advocating). Folding river is terrible, you need to be so sure that one opponent has 67xx to make this right that it makes no sense at all.
Hand 5 - same hand as hand 1 basically.