At the recent PLO8 WSOP tourney, players began with 1,500 in Tournament Chips and they "may receive (3) additional Add-ons each worth 1,000 tournament chips, anytime during the first four levels. Any player that has not taken their add-ons by the end of the fourth level will automatically receive them."

Any thoughts on the pros and cons of taking the add-ons at the beginning versus a later point in time? My initial thought is that taking them at the beginning is the optimal strategy because you can take full value from the fish by using your big stack to get the fish to make a -EV play (e.g. calling an allin on the turn when they just have an a-2 and the board just has two cards to a low so far; or getting them in a situation where they dont realize they are being quartered) Perhaps the strategy would be different for a NL plo8 tourney, but here it seems like lets have as many chips as possible so that we can cover any fish.

I did not take rebuys early in either the $1.5k or the $5k and had no problem chipping up against the fish. In the $1.5k, I took them in the middle of the 4th level once my stack relative to everyone else was on the lower end. I did not take them in the $5k and exchanged them at the end of the 4th level. I'd say that they were taken in the $1.5k earlier given the shallower stacks. I think the optimal strategy is to see how the table plays before taking any rebuys.

During the $5k, I had a long conversation with, among others, Howard Lederer (who is on the players committee) and Lee Watkinson about the pros and cons of rebuys generally and the rebuy chips in the PLO events. Watkinson believed there should be no more than 2 rebuy chips and perhaps only 1. It was Lederer's view that the rebuy chips may not be here to stay and that rebuys may come back in some form if they can figure out how to do it effectively and with assurance of accountability.

I used mine at the 45 minute mark, towards the end of Level 2, and the last one in L4 (which didn't matter since i had twice as many chips as anyone else at my table at the time). I waited for the first one to figure out how good people were. Once i identified two horrible players, i used the rebuys to make sure i had them covered. In all cases, i used the chip immediately before being dealt on the Button.

I may have been better off had i cashed my 3rd add-on chip since i doubled up twice during L3/L4. However, for the first (near) double-up, it's quite possible my opponent would've folded had i used in my last add-on. He check-called me down from the SB with only 53 low to a A82xx board with only backdoor flush and gutshot straight possibilities. 5 players saw the Flop (limped around) and i was in the BB with him in the SB. He tanked before calling on the Turn. I quartered him with 8853.

The second double-up was against the table chip leader in the Big Blind. I was Button, 2nd in chips, and had AK42. I raised to around 3.5xBB vs. 3 limps. Flop came K32 He had AT96. He check-raised me and we got all-in. I scooped. I would've got an extra 1000 had i cashed my add-on. However, the chip leader was two to my left and not a complete idiot, so i liked keeping my life preserver.

Note that a thinking opponent is going to perceive your hand as stronger if you no longer have any more add-on chips to save your tourney life. Opps will also be tighter since mistakenly calling you down will cost them extra chips. I generally like being called early in tourneys (since i play tight early and usually have the best hand), which is an argument for waiting.

There are tons of opportunity cost, risk/reward factors involved. You just have to decide what you're most comfortable with. It's probably best to cash them early for more 2+2ers, but that's not always the case.

In the 5k, I used all of mine in the beginning of the fourth level IMMEDIATELY after the donkey at the table won a 15k pot. When I threw them out there right when the hand was over, I received immediate nods and smiles from every at the table. I was lucky I did use them cuz I won a big big hand soon after.

adding on to your stack in any game live or tourny has alot to do with your seat and the players and money to your right. and also how you want to play against an aggressive player to your left.

all the good players at my $1500 table took them straightaway.
I kept mine as long as I could because busting early would have been horrible

Did the donkey start smiling and nodding too? I am sure he didn't want to feel left out!

Maybe we should petition Stars or FT to hold some of their O8 tournaments with that structure... it seems like the donks would play even donkier if they knew they had a couple of rebuys behind them without having to actually rebuy.

^^^good idea - i'll sign

Having the bullets to avoid an early exit was awesome and I think it could work well online.
[x] would sign

[QUOTE=cfreaks;19906836]Did the donkey start smiling and nodding too? I am sure he didn't want to feel left out!

QUOTE]

He had NO clue why I did it although everyone else did. It was immediately after he flipped over his nut/nut in a 12k pot, before the dealer shipped the chips to him. It still makes me LOL

So how do we start a petition? Just create a thread here or do we PM the Stars and FT reps that are online here or .... ?

[QUOTE=predator06;19907164] I just laughed out loud by myself. That is frigging hilarious!

I agree that pred's move is funny, but it does expose his strategy of trying to isolate the donkey. Granted, "isolate the donkey" isn't exactly a hidden strategy. My first add-on was used in the same way (super-loose player on my left just won a pot to get to ~2300). I was getting the Button the next hand. I don't think anyone noticed that the bad player's winning of the pot was related to my add-on.

For the second one, i waited three hands after the donkey won so that i could use it on the Button.

My initial table wasn't very observant. At the beginning of Level 6 (100/200), i made a UTG+1 raise to 450 with AK32ss because the SB had just lost a large pot and only had 725 left. As i hoped, 3 players called and, as expected, SB shoved. I then re-raised pot (basically all-in) getting the other players to fold. I chopped the pot with the SB, getting a bunch of dead money in the process.

This was an intermediate level play, but it worked. I wasn't able to maintain a poker face after one of the folders accused me of "doing that on purpose." Man, that table was fun.

Can someone explain this to a person who has never played in the WSOP and rarely plays live?

Here is what I think I'm understanding right now. In the 5K event for example, you pay 5K and start with a 1500 chip stack as well as 3 other chips that can be exchanged for 1500 tournament chips a piece. So theoretically you can start the tournament with 1500, 3000, 4500, or 6000 chips. And you are able to exchange one of these add-on chips any time in the first four levels and get 1500 more tournament chips.

- Am I correct in thinking that these chips aren't a "re-buy" and thus don't cost 5K a piece? Just wondering if the tourney costs 5K or 20K.
-Can these chips be saved and be returned for a cash rebate? So if you save and don't use your 3 add-on chips can you return them for ~3.75K?

Thanks for the clarification.

No rebuys and no rebates.

For $1500, you get 1500 in chips plus the 1000 add-ons. You can use those add-ons at any time during the first 4 levels. There are no rebates possible.

Part of the reason this was done, i believe, was due to the logistical issues involved in handling a normal rebuy event with that many players and at that price.

You should take them right away. Tourney payout structures make it so that the real money is won by winning of at least final tabling. Min. cashing really isn't of much value. Playing to survive is a pretty bad strategy. I think these concepts would be pretty agreed upon by the MTT forum regs.

I am pretty sure there are times when taking them right away is not the best option.
I kept mine as long as I could just to not bust out in one hand or hopefully one hour. It is entirely possible that this was the right decision in that it might have reduced my probable ev deficit against the field

assani, I used to think so too but I don't agree now. I'm pretty sure the play is to save at least one and more than likely 2. Tournament life means too much so if you get coolered or sucked out on you aren't just instantly busted. I'm on my phone and don't feel like typing more out but yeah... Most cases I would take 1to start and save 2.