$1/$2 PLO8

Hero is in the BB with K532

Raised EP to $6. Three callers, SB folds, Hero completes.

Pot $31.

Flop: AT4

Hero checks. Pre-flop raiser bets pot. Folded to Hero.

My play?

raise pot

Stacksizes? Pfr details?

I'm okayish with repotting, but I see merit to calling and donking some turns (low diamonds, straight cards, etc.)

Fold pf. Check call the flop at best. Check raising into a pot cbet into 4 players won't yield a good result.

Stacksizes would help here, but this is almost certainly a fold. You have at most 9 outs to scoop, probably 6 if we exclude the wheel-cards that you need that are diamonds. And the goal is to scoop, not get your money back by hitting a 6,7,8, in which case you might still get quartered.

Can't see why you'd repot here, OOP, unless you think villain gonna fold, again stack size would help here.

Stack sizes are approximately 60-70 BBs.

I'm pretty sure villain is only raising pf with AAxx or A23x.

I folded. I figure if I miss on the turn I have to stack off anyway. Didn"t want to do that. He flashed AA.

What if there was a caller in between us? I feel that's an easy call to see the turn.

Assuming everyone has around 100bb.

Pre I'd always fold, on the flop I'd always call. We have way too much equity vs his range to fold (and it's clear what cards put us ahead and which don't), but not enough equity to push imo.

edited after xpost:

If his range really is so tight, it's even more clear we need to fold pre. No reason to put ourselves in dominated spots, or hit a flop (like here) only to fold.

You aren't afraid of AA, since you have decent equity vs it, but you are very afraid of A23, since it dominates you.

Pre is obv a fold. Flop is w/e you want but just don't fold. Putting him on AA23 is uber nitty. With 50BB effective or less I just c/r and stack off. With more a call seems fine

Fold PF. Several reasons:

Your hand needs an ace on the flop but four people already entered the pot so it is likely that there arent any aces alive in the deck.

If an ace flop your king is dead.

Your FD is not good in a multiway pot and you even got one of your own outs.

Your OOP in a family pot.

Agreed. I would have folded preflop most likely anyways, but as played call flop and if a scary low card comes donk bet. But donk bet small something like half or slightly less than half the pot. Then pot the river.

I would tend to call preflop, although this is probably a leak.

On flop call along, you want as much action as possible to maximise the size of the pot when you hit your hand. It's not strong enough to stack off: there's too many people in the pot to hope for fold equity, and anyone with an ace is in decent shape.

edit: just reread and see everyone is folded except you and one villain. I'm a bit 'meh' about both options (call and raise) . I guess that is proof that it was a preflop fold

Agree with folding pre and flatting flop.

Definately agree. Mistake calling pre. Shouldn't have led into the pot. Too many other hands potentially leave you quartered.

u have wrap


ship it obv life is ez

all sorts of wheel draws you got like


3 draws Awesome

God I hope you get banned soon.

Why?

I don't see any good reason to ban him. Am I missing something?

His advice in this thread
("u have wrap

ship it obv life is ez "), is worth consideration.

If Hero and Villain both have about 60bb left and if the pot is about 30bb, Hero wins 90 when he scoops and loses 60 when he gets scooped. He breaks even on this when he wins 60/150 and loses 90/150. Another, perhaps more familiar way of expressing that ratio is in parts per hundred, about 40:60.

In other words, Hero only needs 40% equity to have favorable odds to continue, all in, and I think he has more than that. I think it's closer to 46:54 after this flop if Villain's range is A23*,AA**. Here's the sim:

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

2,993,820 trials (Exhaustive)

board: A4T

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
Kc5h3h2h	46.12%	734,326	747,360	121,110	1,706,664	488,592
AA**,A23*	53.88%	796,143	2,125,350	121,110	0	488,592

So if Hero is going to continue, perhaps getting some fold equity by pushing with a check raise is the best way to proceed. It's worth consideration, anyhow. Just recognizing how some players might be thinking here has merit.

Until I found your remark, Rundeep, about wanting gazeebo banned puzzling, I had no intention to get involved in this thread. In truth my thoughts about what to do here are more complex than I have stated them. But I think check/raising after this flop has enough merit to at least be a consideration.

Buzz

I find Buzz's post puzzling. I thought obvious troll is obvious.

I couldn't tell, Tbh.

I think Buzz was being a little cute... although his explanation was well reasoned and appreciated. Gazeebo wasn't the first one to suggest shipping after all. He may just have the writing and grammar skills of a ******ed monkey, but Gazeebo feels like a bit of a troll to me based on this and other posts.

What? No it wasn't well reasoned. He didn't even reply to the part you quoted, but instead quoted another sentence written by gazeebo.

I feel like I should respond, but I don't know what to say.

I don't think gazeebo is a troll. In my humble opinion his posts often do have a sardonic quality, but I don't think that qualifies him as a troll. People do have different points of view, sometimes thinking out of the box...

His point of view, whether he meant it or not, seems to merit consideration.

I'm going to generally play this starting hand, K(532) from this position with this action. And that's what BB is doing here. Then I don't like the two diamonds on the flop, but if I put Villain on the range AA**,A23* (which I generally wouldn't... but if I did...), considering stack sizes and the amount in the pot, I think Hero has a playable hand/flop. And then the question becomes, "How best to play it?" Acting first is awkward. In general I prefer not to check/call... and I think a bet from Villain will be forthcoming if Hero checks.

Thus perhaps the best way to play this hand after this action and this flop is to shove, even though we're probably behind (but only ~4:5 against the range AA**,A23*). We should get some fold equity from the shove which makes the shove better than the insidious check/call. And well... as gazeebo suggests, we do have a wrap around wheel draw... This is not, for me, a cut and dried fold. And gazeebo, troll or not, is the one who suggested this line of play.

I hope you're not puzzled by me, anyhow. The puzzle to me is why I am a moderator at all. (But for whatever reason, here I am).

Buzz

I wasn't trying to be cute. Honest.

Thanks.

You're right. prodonkey was the first to suggest raising. But you didn't think prodonkey was trolling.

Many, if not most of them, do have what I'd call a sardonic quality.

Buzz

Ouch. Touche.

I thought I quoted all gazeebo wrote in this thread. I thought his second post was an extension, an after thought, of his first post in this thread. I looked at it and I re-read all gazeebo's posts in this forum before replying.

Buzz

I too have had trouble interpreting some of Buzz's posts. His detailed step by step posts about something that seems relatively simple aren't him being a bit of an ass. He's just detailed and methodical.