Wisconsin Governor deploys "nuclear option" and takes on public unions. - Page 122 - Politics and Economics

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Wisconsin Governor deploys "nuclear option" and takes on public unions.

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04-07-2011 , 09:52 PM

#3026

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 100,448

Guaranteed.

04-07-2011 , 09:59 PM

#3027

Hamish McBagpipe

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,502

Something stinks to high heaven.

http://www.onewisconsinnow.org/press...-waukesha.html

04-07-2011 , 10:34 PM

#3028

TomVeil

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Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

How many times has **** like this happened when there was no recount? If Kloppenburg had appeared to be ahead by 5k votes would they even have found this? Some old clerk uploading an Excel spreadsheet into an Access DB with a bunch of human fail points in the process is an absolutely terrifying way to run a democracy.

gg America

What's worse is that they could do 10 recounts and would get 10 different totals for both candidates.

04-07-2011 , 10:39 PM

#3029

BCPVP

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Quote:

Originally Posted by HungryHippo

guaranteed if this went the other way you would be whining about voter fraud and not saying the process caught the error.

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Guaranteed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamish McBagpipe

Something stinks to high heaven.

http://www.onewisconsinnow.org/press...-waukesha.html

Quote:

Ramona Kitzinger, the Democratic member of the county board of canvass, defended the process. She agreed with Nickolaus that the board “went over everything and made sure that all the numbers jived up, and they did.”

“I’m the Democratic vice chair of Waukesha County, so I’m not going to stand here and tell you something that’s not true,” Kitzinger said.

http://elections.wispolitics.com/201...gizes-for.html

And from a blogger before this news hit airwaves:

Quote:

So here’s where we are now. All the places I have mentioned above have a population of 219,000 and there were 76,396 votes cast in these places. Do we really believe that in all the rest of Waukesha county, which has a total population of about 164,000 that only 34,191 votes were cast? Only a 21% turnout in places like the city of Waukesha, Pewaukee, the town of Delafield, and Hartland? Really?

I could very well end up with egg on my face, but given we’ve already seen that AP can be inaccurate, I am starting to EXPECT that we will soon discover that there are 10,000 to 16,000 more ballots in Waukesha county than what AP has reported.

http://fairlyconservative.com/2011/0...ukesha-county/
It was about 14,000 votes that were cast in Brookfield.

04-07-2011 , 10:46 PM

#3030

Inso0

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Quote:

Originally Posted by HungryHippo

guaranteed if this went the other way you would be whining about voter fraud and not saying the process caught the error.

I would demand an explanation/investigation, just like the Kloppenburg people are going to do.

04-07-2011 , 10:53 PM

#3031

Inso0

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamish McBagpipe

Something stinks to high heaven.

http://www.onewisconsinnow.org/press...-waukesha.html

From article:

Quote:

Madison -- As counties statewide move to certify Tuesday’s shocking upset victory by JoAnne Kloppenburg over heavily-favored David Prosser,

ROFL

04-07-2011 , 11:07 PM

#3032

Hamish McBagpipe

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,502

Quote:

ROFL

I'm not sure what you are laughing at. The huge swing from less than 2 months ago?

The February primary....

David Prosser — 225,256 (55%)
JoAnne Kloppenburg — 102,040 (25%)
Marla Stephens — 43,997 (11%)
Joel Winnig — 37,149 (9%)

Total — 408,442

Some politicians could come out at a press conference, squat over their flag, and take a huge dump and not lose this much ground in such a short time frame.

Last edited by Hamish McBagpipe; 04-07-2011 at 11:15 PM.

04-07-2011 , 11:15 PM

#3033

will1530

self-banned

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 5,773

Pretty good article on the voting numbers in the oops I missed a few county

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/119442229.html

Quote:

Before the adjustment, Waukesha would have registered by far the biggest decrease in turnout of any county in the state between last fall’s governor’s race and this spring’s court race – almost 26 points, from 63% to 37%. The statewide drop in turnout between those two elections was about 16 points.

After the adjustment, Waukesha’s drop-off in turnout is still among the biggest – around 21 points – but it is not nearly as much of an outlier. Ozaukee County had a slightly higher drop-off in turnout of almost 22 points. Washington County had a drop-off in turnout of a little more than 18 points. These turnout estimates are based on the voting-age population in each county in the 2010 Census, and the total votes cast for governor in 2010 and for state Supreme Court on Tuesday.

Without the adjustment, Waukesha would have ranked 12th among 72 counties in turnout rate Tuesday.

With the addition of the 14,000 votes, it ranks fifth, after Dane, Bayfield, Ozaukee and Door, and just ahead of Washington.

I definitely think there should be a hand recount in this county at least. The county clerk should be fired as well. This whole fiasco makes me think that no election results should be reported until audits in every precinct in the state is complete.

04-08-2011 , 02:25 AM

#3034

Cotton Hill

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Has there ever been an election where the results were within a few hundred votes where both sides didn't accuse each other of fraud?

04-08-2011 , 02:28 AM

#3035

Chips Ahoy

help me help you

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 28,869

Quote:

Originally Posted by will1530

I definitely think there should be a hand recount in this county at least. The county clerk should be fired as well.

Yes to these. Transparency and SOP are worth a lot. This county is the opposite, undermining confidence in the result. Fire the clown. Make an effort to increase transparency. Then the side that loses by a small margin can only blame their own efforts.

04-08-2011 , 05:13 AM

#3036

Boa Hancock

adept

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 737

This sucks. The margin may be too big now to steal this one, like we did with the Washington Governor and the Minnesota Senate race.

04-08-2011 , 08:51 AM

#3037

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boa Hancock

This sucks. The margin may be too big now to steal this one, like we did with the Washington Governor and the Minnesota Senate race.

Is that rule about calling people trolls really enforced?

04-08-2011 , 09:12 AM

#3038

Inso0

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamish McBagpipe

This completely ignores everything that has happened in the past 2 months, as well as the fact that the election was set up perfectly for a Kloppenburg 6+ point victory by the fact that Milwaukee and Dane county had huge local elections on the ballot, and the rest of the state had nothing.

Prosser was NOT favored on Tuesday. I defy you to find a new outlet that reported otherwise leading into the election. You won't find it.

04-08-2011 , 10:28 AM

#3039

Inso0

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04-08-2011 , 11:33 PM

#3040

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inso0

I am still mystified as to where you get your information. Prosser was favored if only slightly (from his internal polling) and out spent the other side by a decent amount. Sure, Kloppenburg was surging but she was never a favorite, let alone by six.

04-11-2011 , 08:52 AM

#3041

adios

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

Just quoting your post for a point of reference. This after the election analysis in the Journal-Sentinal is worth reading for those interested:

Election turnout magnified divide in Wisconsin

Quote:

• The Madison factor. Dane County played an extraordinary role in the election. It had the highest turnout in the state - 48% of voting-age adults. It had a higher turnout for a spring judicial election than 49 of Wisconsin's 72 counties did in last fall's midterm election for governor, Congress and state Legislature. It voted 73% to 27% for JoAnne Kloppenburg against incumbent Justice David Prosser, giving her such a massive margin (almost 85,000 votes) that Prosser had to win the rest of the state by almost seven percentage points to overcome it.

• Milwaukee. There were important dynamics in play in other parts of the state, as well.

Take Milwaukee, the state's other big Democratic county. It played a much different role than Dane in this election. It voted 57% to 43% for Kloppenburg over Prosser. Yet it was one of the few counties in the state where Prosser actually did better on Tuesday than Scott Walker did last fall. Prosser's share of the Milwaukee County vote was almost six points higher than Walker's was for governor in 2010; Menominee was the only other county in the state where Prosser outperformed Walker by that much. Milwaukee County also turned out at far lower levels than Dane. Milwaukee County's turnout rate was 32% of voting-age adults; the city of Milwaukee turnout rate was about 28% - compared with statewide turnout of 34% and Dane County turnout of 48%.

• East vs. West. Elsewhere in Wisconsin, Prosser did much better in the east (especially his home region, the Fox Valley) than he did in the west. Last fall, Walker did quite well in western counties that have been trending on the whole in a Democratic direction. But on Tuesday, those were the counties where Prosser's performance lagged the most behind Walker's.

Lot's of speculation about Dane County turnout. Draw your own conclusions.

04-11-2011 , 11:09 AM

#3042

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

I just got done reading that article. Not sure what you mean by

Quote:

Lot's of speculation about Dane County turnout. Draw your own conclusions.

04-11-2011 , 02:02 PM

#3043

adios

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Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,539

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

I just got done reading that article. Not sure what you mean by

Cmon you know and you also know that there are two explanations one by many Repub supporters that are unsubstantiated and one by Dem supporters that doesn't need substantiation. I sense you're a little touch on this subject. It's only one election in reality. No reason for either Dems or Repubs to be "partying" over the results.

Anyway, doesn't really matter who won as far as deciding the merits of the case brought about by Dane County DA regarding the legitimacy of the law that was passed regarding the unions right?

04-11-2011 , 02:12 PM

#3044

ElliotR

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"My own conclusion" is that someone felt like posting a reference to what he admits are "unsubstantiated" allegations of fraud to smear the opposing political party.

04-11-2011 , 03:06 PM

#3045

[Phill]

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adios, im not gonna claim thats as bad as birther claims, but its not too many degrees of separation from them to avoid comparison.

04-11-2011 , 03:45 PM

#3046

adios

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,539

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElliotR

"My own conclusion" is that someone felt like posting a reference to what he admits are "unsubstantiated" allegations of fraud to smear the opposing political party.

He asked me a question so I anwered it. So in the future if a political faction makes unsubstantiated claims that shouldn't be pointed out on this forum? Okay got it. I sense you're a little touchy about the results.

What I wrote:

Quote:

Lot's of speculation about Dane County turnout. Draw your own conclusions.

Explanations by Dems and Repubs are both an excercise in speculation on this. DUCY?

spec·u·la·tion (spky-lshn)

b. A conclusion, opinion, or theory reached by conjecture.

Last edited by adios; 04-11-2011 at 04:02 PM. Reason: Explain what speculation means

04-11-2011 , 03:48 PM

#3047

adios

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Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,539

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Phill]

adios, im not gonna claim thats as bad as birther claims, but its not too many degrees of separation from them to avoid comparison.

I basically agree. What would you say about the claims about fraud in Waukesha County? Looks to me to be more of the same. I think there's a message from this election that the Repubs should heed and there's a message the Dems should heed to further their political agendas.

04-11-2011 , 04:02 PM

#3048

ElliotR

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Quote:

Originally Posted by adios

He asked me a question so I anwered it. So in the future if a political faction makes unsubstantiated claims that shouldn't be pointed out on this forum? Okay got it. I sense you're a little touchy about the results.

What I wrote:
[indent]

Explanations by Dems and Repubs are both an excercise in speculation on this. DUCY?

lol. How come you didn't tell Phil he was "a little touchy," too?

FTR, you can post anything you want, within the rules. I and will draw the conclusions that I draw form your posts. Especially when you invite me to do so.

04-11-2011 , 04:10 PM

#3049

adios

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Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,539

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElliotR

lol. How come you didn't tell Phil he was "a little touchy," too?

Quote:

ElliotR response:"My own conclusion" is that someone felt like posting a reference to what he admits are "unsubstantiated" allegations of fraud to smear the opposing political party.

Quote:

Phill response:adios, im not gonna claim thats as bad as birther claims, but its not too many degrees of separation from them to avoid comparison.

Quote:

FTR, you can post anything you want, within the rules.

Apparently I'm within the rules but I sense close to the edge.

Quote:

I and will draw the conclusions that I draw form your posts. Especially when you invite me to do so.

Ok.