By obvious, rather than meaning it couldn't be interpreted both ways, I meant that I don't think anyone could be that ******ed to make a claim that ridiculous. Then again, I may place far too much faith in humanity and especially some of the people that inhabit (infest?) this forum.

Guests of the Ayatollah

Reminds me of this. When the Iranians stormed the embassy they expected to see a "den of spies" and hundreds of CIA agents working throughout the country. They found four CIA agents in the entire country of Iran all working in the embassy and two of them didn't know Farsi. CIA is almost ways overrated especially by non Americans.

My dad is Iranian. The extent to which people in the Middle East believe the CIA is involved in their lives is insane.

Unvarnished but maybe not too far from accurate hyperbole: the CIA is most useful in its function of diverting attention from the NSA.

Clearly because they only found four agents there were actually only four agents.

Well it's much, much harder to actually witness what the NSA is doing on the ground.

Yes, the two agencies have two completely different goals. FBI pursues criminals in the U.S and the CIA gathers intelligence from abroad for National Security purposes. Certainly every now and then, one agency will have intelligence that pertains to the other, but their fundamental goals are vastly different and they have organized their agencies accordingly.

FYP

Link?

Link?

I also think about what our enemies want to do this country and know that they need to be stopped. The CIA helps accomplish this goal.

I'd like to see where you got your information.

http://mindbodypolitic.com/2010/01/0...n-afghanistan/

Some argue that the CIA actions cause what is referred to as blow back, and actually creates a lot of the hatred that leads to the "our" enemies "doing stuff to this country".

Just finished Legacy of Ashes, which was fascinating. It does not inspire confidence in the efficacy of covert action.

Really? I never thought of that?!?!?!?!

Some of our enemies hate us no matter what the CIA does or did. The question is, do the benefits of the CIA (information, dead enemies, secure nation) outweigh the costs (blowback, hatred, etc..).

I would think so.

"Gentlemen do not read each other's mail."

Grunching:

Saw up above someone talking about CIA/FBI seperation and the CIA not working within the US. My cousin was an agent for the CIA and he now works for a Speials unit (or something like that) in the Army to skirt some of those rules, or so I'm told. Unrelated; his girlfriend is back working in the white house so sweet tour here I come :P

But that's not really the question. This isn't a binary, "we have the CIA or we don't" issue. The question is what we want the CIA to be doing and where.

Well, under US law the FBI is mandated with the responsibility of investigating certain crimes committed against American persons and property abroad, so they don't just pursue criminals in the US. But I do agree that the FBI and the CIA have different functions and goals.


Playing a bit of a Devil's Advocate here:

I'd say Covert Action is often an essential and necessary part of gathering intelligence. This is why it is understandable that the CIA has the SAD and runs some paramilitary operations (usually coordinated with various military resources). In fact, this resource was extremely effective in Afghanistan with the overthrowing of the Taliban and has been instrumental in capturing many high ranking members of al-Qaeda.

Robert Baer has written some interesting things about the current state of the CIA and the problems it is facing and where they stem from.

Also Robert Steele has some interesting thoughts on the intelligence community.

PWNT

Ofcourse I didn't mean that the CIA holds responsibility for every single crime that's been committed over the last 40 years; this would suggest that the American government is a crime ring, which although may be true, not true in the sense that they have control over every criminal act that occurs, or in other words over 1/4 of the world's population.

What I meant was: at one time or another, the CIA has had to quietly hold responisibility for most crimes which are recognized as "crimes" by local, national and/or international law. Obviously there are a few ommittances; I highly doubt that CIA agents have ever been ordered to rape, or to solicit or sell prostitution, etc. But these are small problems in our world. Some Joe Blow raping an innocent man or woman is certainly unethical, unfortunate and criminal. However, it has no effect on the current international state of affairs. The things that the CIA does, and does in a false interest to "protect America", not only have "an" effect on such international state of affairs, but they have a mass effect. The problem is that we are being played with like a stuffed animal, and told to beleive that these secret missions they are carrying out are to "protect" us. Certainly, a lot of the actions undertaken by CIA are in the interests of protecting and securing America's stronghold on the Global Economy. But in reality, none of this is necessary. The American Global economy is infact very secure, and I highly doubt that in this age of Consumerism such an economy could possibly ever fail. Thus, we the children of Consumerism are more protected and secured than we could have ever imagined. There is no threat to America, because there is no threat to the Global Economy.

Oh well, that isn't hyperbole then.

Damn you CIA violating every single crime on the books across the planet!

You're cute, and I feel like I want to give you a pat on the head, or a noogie or something to that effect.

The majority of these enemies would have probably continued to carry on with their normal pathetic lives had foreign intervention not been applied in their country. Do you ever bother to ask yourself about the root of our enemies hatred?

As per the requested links: go to a library and start doing some research. I can't possibly find a direct link to prove that CIA Agent "a" or "b" committed such and such crime at such and such date in such and such place. Even the stupidest of criminals wouldn't leave a paper trail of their crime.

http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Company.../dp/0883730286

http://www.amazon.com/Sleeping-Devil.../dp/1400050219

Or, scour the internet for reports about CIA's operations around the world, for former agent testimonies, etc etc etc.

http://nbgazette.com/index.php?entry=entry090821-193742

http://130.94.183.89/magazine/oct96/cia.html

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/cia-cover...s/12443-2.html

http://www.infowars.com/ex-cia-agent...ith-jundullah/

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...5huXzAw&q=CIA#

Like every other topic in the current international state of affairs, these examples are only the tip of the iceberg. Do some research, reading and most importantly thinking! Don't allow yourself to become a beleiver of mainstream media. Be exactly what the God of Consumerism doesn't want you to be: an individual with independant thoughts, beleifs, ideas, etc.

A better question. Does force (violence and the implication of violence) hold up the Dollar? And if it does, how many people would want it to stop if it meant their investments would decline, that their government benefits/entitlements would stop or decrease, that their taxes would need to be raised, that gas prices would go up, ect. How many would still want it to stop if they understood the ramifications of stopping it?

http://solari.com/blog/?p=3043

Great post.

Conquering areas of globalist interest (i.e. Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo) most certainly holds up the dollar. At the same time, we are indefinately in the dark when the question of the nature of such conquers arises. The fact is that most people have no idea what is actually happening in these places, other than the lies we are continually fed on our tubes. I find it very hard to beleive that any normal humane person could accept and be at peace with the truth of the nature of such acts. But then again, we did support a "war on terror" that involved us in the following:

Declaring war against a group of extremists, which we originally organized, trained and funded. Conquering a country (which ironically enough has some of the largest oil reserves in the world) in the name of the fight on this group of extremists which actually has no little or no ties to said country. Furthermore, we are given an image of a leader to be psychotic, murderous, and even in control of WMD in order to justify conquering his country and overthrowing his "regime", when in reality, that very leader was installed into power by us, supplied with WMDs by us, and given the green light to commit genocide on the people od Kurdistan BY US!

Man, we're really doing some good in this world by freeing Iraq of one of our puppets and installing the next.

It's useless, dude.

No matter how much evidence (empirical or otherwise) you bludgeon posters like 13th with, their default reaction is one of endless denial. They'll ask for the links, hoping you won't provide them, and then never do the work and read them. Or if they do read one or two, they deny further, focus on one minor aspect they can debate, and avoid applying critical analysis to all the evidence available as a whole.

To them, U.S. jingoists chickenhawks and corporate string-pullers represent nothing but their infallible "beacon of light" fantasy of America. To them, their heroes never do anything unethical. Nevermind Northwoods, Tuskegee, the Maine, Tonkin, Savings & Loan, Iran-Contra, Mossadeq, WMD fraud, Latin-American death squads, and on and on and on and on and on and on.

I had the same exchange with him regarding his laughably short-sighted Malthusian denial thread. He squawked "prove it, prove it!" over and over again before disappearing.

it was pretty hilarious watching CNN the last few days

Sunday during the poli talk show around lunch time

former CIA agent and now talking head #1 (paraphrasing) "Obama has no idea how big the terror issues are. These people are out to kill us b/c they hate us and they are not taking the threat seriously. States x,y, and z are breeding grounds and this better be a wakeup call"

Monday night Larry King show

former CIA agent talking head #2 "We are spending close to a trillion $ a year and we're not getting anywhere. We're already struggling massively in 2 wars and now conservatives want us in Yemen. Are we going to go to Somalia, Sudan and Ethiopia too? How many fronts can we fight on? This approach is not working and we need a completely different strategy than bombing everything in sight".

such a divergence from 2 ppl working in the same org. I guess it's quite the beast with tentacles in every direciton.