Growing up I used to think IBEW was some kind of shady white supremest group. I guess unions just use really outdated terminology and symbols.

CNN just had a little piece explaining exactly what ICE was, how long it's been around and what it did, especially relative to the other agency (Border Control something) that does similar work. The point is the general population prolly has no strong opinion on ICE just due to lack of awareness.

Ergo Dems dare not risk alienating the clueless by talking about ICE's abuses and wanting to get rid of them? Lol

If you're going to kidnap children, someone should get a ransom right? God I feel safe.

How long before Trump brags about that at a rally and says, "See? I told you Mexico would pay for the wall!" to loud cheers and U-S-A chants?

US is a propaganda free zone.

Einbert's hijack moved.

Got a weird idea guys. How about since the first wave of caging innocents has already arived we use some of the discipline it would take to say, usher in an entire global reconstruction of power, to like, stay the **** on topic in a single thread that is not academic in any way shape or form? If we can’t even do that without distractions as large as whether Mao was a good or bad, we may as well donate our time and money to ****ing ICE.

This **** is so absurd it smacks of a ****ing purposeful troll.

This one got pruned in the move.

Eh, I'm going to Occupy ICE twice this week. I proclaim the right to participate in thread derails sans guilt.

Not trying to guilt anyone tbh. It is about tactics. When we finally have an important issue that is possibly mobilizing to those who have been frozen, lethargic, losing steam, waiting to see or whatever else and it is adulterated by injecting complex and disenfranchising movements that are easy targets for the other side--who are killing us with their focus--it is a fatal mistake that is easy to track in the dem/left losses.

You can see how they are pivoting to attack now. Abolishing ICE, while I am in 100% agreement on it, has given them the distraction they need to keep good people from engaging and rising up against the fact that they have KIDS IN CAGES. How ****ing valuable is it to them to be able to say that the crazy protestors who are being shrill about their law and order policies would prefer North Korea or the Mao model to the good ol USA? For that matter, how valuable is it for the thread on the topic that has probably mobilized more people on 2+2 than any other in recent times to derail into an intellectual thought exercise on how global communism would or would not be possible?

I'm not trying to shame, man. I am interested in those topics too. But it is not about what you and I are going to do or accomplish by showing up at the ICE building. It is about what is going to get the people who are walking by us that day, who also don't want kids in cages and maybe would be against ICE if they even knew what it really was, to stop and join in.

sweet justice

You keep saying "they" but the people pivoting to attack people for advocating abolishing ICE are the ones who are either fine with caging children or look at it as some annoying PR problem. You're never going to win those people over because they're looking for any escape route and then will blame you for them taking it.

Raids in Iowa tear a small town apart.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/03/u...-churches.html

That middle picture of the church. Average age 80, maybe?

There are people in between the lap dogs looking for the mental gymnastic talking points, and the people who are already clear about what to do. This is where the right beats us every time.

I am not claiming to have the **** figured out, this is just where I am landing currently. When I used to think--"how did good people let the Holocaust happen in Germany? Surely they couldn't all have been brainwashed?" and it was a mystery to me. Everyone I knew as a kid who heard the story said the same ****ing thing--we would fight it! We would not have watched it unfold!

So here we are. This is no longer "they are saying things that sound like they want to" situation. We have pictures. We have audio. We have no denial. Yet, that, and the environment, and the supreme court, and the travel ban, and Harley Davidson, and restaurants, and bakeries, to media attacks, to you name it has the good people...from liberal people in these threads to politicians unable to combat it.

I'm getting repetitive now, but being repetitive is exactly what needs to ****ing happen. We can learn what is working for these monsters. We can take a look at why they (and by they I mean the right and specifically this admin) are not losing no matter what **** they pull. It is because they are using propaganda. That is the "genius" of Trump, but it is really not ****ing genius. It is well known and well executed every single day by corporations. But for some reason, we all want to swat at it instead of take a god-damned cue from it.

You know people who are upset, know that **** is not right, but are lamenting the fact that they are being forced to think about it. If you made them read all of the threads here, they would ****ing flip out and shut down--not because they are looking for an out, because it is impossible for many people to process this magnitude and convert it into action--not just on this level, on personal levels. People stay in bad relationships, in bad jobs, continue all kinds of bad habits they know are bad because they are overwhelmed with the prospect of change. How do we mobilize the majority of people who are too scared, confused or lazy to engage fully? The people that as kids were sure they would not have stood for the rise of Hitler? How? By making it simple. Actionable.

I am not going to be sold on global communism today no matter how sound it may be if the prerequisite by the advocate is I educate myself by reading three books that are recommended. But I am going to be sold on stop putting babies in cages because Americans don't do that. Many people are not going to step into the fray when it you have to understand what ICE is compared to border patrol, you have a megaphone repeating on Twitter that no ICE=lawlessness and bands of ms-13 raping you (even if that sounds like an exaggeration to the uninformed, maybe abolishing them now sounds almost as extreme?), but you know what is ****ing easy to understand? A baby crying in a cage for their mother locked in a different cage because they came for help. No. Make them attack THAT and only that.

My best friend is meek. He admits it. I am confrontational. He wants to hide. I want to fight. We need to make it easier for the people who want to hide to fight! They do that with simple lies, we can do it by keeping the truth simple. I am good with labor rights. I am 100% on board with BLM. I agree that democratic socialism is better than what we have, I am 100% against the travel ban, but there are soooooooooo many people who have been successfully confused by those issues already who, given time and effort, would agree with me. But we don't have that time. We need them right now...let's focus on what moves them. I hate to say it to the people who have been out there doing good work for years and dedicating their lives to leftist issues, but move the **** over because you are failing. The right has been successfully attacking and marring those issues for years and you have not gained the traction quick enough to make it work. You may be right, but you are losing. What is right/correct/true is not what matters anymore in this fight. They have said it. We just don't ****ing listen ever.

For their side? Lock her up. Emails. Racism. Libs melting down. They have their hits. We have got to find ours. No babies in cages. Play the tapes. Make them own it. No nuance. No time. We are against law and order? No. We are against babies in cages and you are doing that. We want open borders? We are against babies in cages, crying in squalor on concrete floors. We want socialism? We are against what amounts to solitary confinement for ****ing infants on the basis of a misdemeanor charge against their parents. Anyone can understand that. It is all we should be talking about. Even the laziest American will get behind a message of us being better than that.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/imm...s-kids-n888631

in the heartland theres a lot of places like that because of a huge region that has been steadily losing people . there are ghost towns but more often there are small towns of 5k people where the average age is 50.

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1014173442982236160

^^^Yes.

Approve

B+

Would move to A+ if they removed Jesus and put him in some other cage.

Or have dummies dressed up like ICE ripping the sweet baby Jesus from her arms.

everything about that display says the people who made it are "salt of the earth" which in rural midwest speak means "no but like seriously there really great people for real"