Epc, we were getting on so well yesterday too...

I do admit I don't do tone well on the internet. Who does though? It does seem to be a common theme on here that someone will jump on a throw away point that is easier to attack than try to debate the main issue, which here was whether austerity helps or hinders the growth of the economy.

I don't think anybody here other than you is arguing the case that austerity does not hinder growth though.
This, however unfair you deem it to be, puts the burden on you to come out with some kind of evidence.

That's because most other people on here are left wing. I've stated my logic, I'm not sure what kind of evidence you want - economic evidence is usually meaningless because models are based on assumptions and have limitations, and comparisons are between different countries and/or time periods have too many other differences to make the point you're looking at clear. Quoting an economist because he sounds smart isn't providing evidence - the main downfall is people just look for "experts" that back up the outcome that fits with their political view. It's pretty clear that BW isn't approaching this from a neutral start point as he began with "****ing mental austerity fetish".

I perhaps stated the debate too simply, the argument should be whether austerity is better for the overall economy in the long term. It could be seen as akin to living hand to mouth for a period to save up for a house deposit, it's not fun at the time but probably benefits you in the long run. Or perhaps a better example is living hand to mouth to get out of a debt spiral of relying on payday loans.

I'm still happy for people to attack the line of thought I set out above - it probably is wrong as I'm not an economist and I am open to having my point of view changed. That would require some critical thought though rather than quoting a random expert and calling it evidence.

I'd suggest reading Keynes' The General Theory Of Employment, Interest, And Money
Austerity: The History of a Dangerous Idea by Mark Blyth

Or watch this - Blyth is Professor of International Political Economy at Brown University.
He's a great speaker too.

Still this.

He has a book out on the subject which we wants to sell. You should be more critical in assessing your sources. Writing a book on how the government is right is hardly going to sell. I would rather read something which doesn't clearly start from a biased start point. He's a "great speaker" though so he must be right.

I'm familiar with Keynes obviously. Like all economic models, it has to make some assumptions and shortcuts which means you need to be careful about real world application.

I'm going to step back from this unless you want to discuss my reasons for my views which I set out above - you're clearly avoiding it though at this point. I get the logic behind spending to improve growth, but as with all economic theory, there is no "proof" that this will definitely work, and the consequences of it failing are much worse than the consequences of austerity failing.

Also a lot of this "evidence" seems to be opinion from economists who are actually academics, journalists and writers. You have to question why they aren't government advisers or working for fund managers (fair enough they might not be money motivated), but they aren't being paid directly for their expertise - I'm sure someone like Blyth would be a government adviser if he was wanted.

Those who can't, teach.

I'm not quoting some random expert.
I'm pointing at some material that can give you some basic understanding of a concept you seem to be struggling with. Surely you can watch a video from someone who has a different opinion to you (albeit one based seemingly on nothing more than a hunch and political partisanship) and gain knowledge from it. You say you're "familiar" with Keynes then trot off some nonsense about real world application.
Could I ask you what you would accept as evidence because your standard seems to be impossibly high.
Better yet - please provide some evidence (obviously meeting your own standards) that austerity doesn't stifle growth.

You seem unable to distinguish between evidence and opinion.

As I said before I understand the theory of running a deficit in a recession to improve growth. Is there evidence on what you should do when you forgot to run the corresponding surplus during the boom? We can't run a deficit indefinitely.

And still this.

Anybody familiar with tenancy agreements? Letting agent wants 66 quid for 'solicitors fees' to renew tenancy agreement for 12 or 6 months. Claims landlord is paying the other half (a cool £132 for printing something off no doubt)

My understanding is that once a fixed term tenancy ends the tenancy becomes a statutory periodic tenancy, and there's not a thing they can do about it. Agreement states that 66 is the fee for renewal.

There is the background situation of a consultation taking place over the scrapping of tenant fees, not in place yet but it's a pretty strong indicator of the government's intention to ban unfair fees. I may use this and urge letting agent to lead the way as a responsible agent.

Private? I had a letting agent try this on once and I said it wasn't in my contract that this was due and therefore I'm not paying it. They never disputed that and didn't even have the sense to put it in the next contract. They are making way more than the £66 from the rest of their landlord cut and won't want to risk that - also I doubt your landlord would want to risk losing a tenant (assuming you're a good tenant), and the letting agent won't want to tell him they've pissed you off.

If it's in your agreement you can't use that argument obv, but you could use the argument you suggest and if they think there's enough threat they might lose you then they might apply the reasoning above and waive it.

You are right, don't give them a penny! Once the fixed term ends it goes onto a rolling month by month contract so and they still need to give you two months notice if they want to kick you out. It won't stop the letting agent badgering you with the odd threatening phone call but the law is on your side so laugh at them and put the phone down.

looooooooooooool.

Amazing.

Yea wonder why we will consider the opinions of someone with a Nobel prize in economics but not jeccross. Note, its consider, not accept as gospel.

This is of course compounded that when reading any view expressed on economics by jecross, its immediately obvious he has no formal training in economics what so ever.

Given that government spending immediately contributes to GDP, its mathematical fact given how GDP is calculated that in a vacuum cuts in government spending will lead to reductions in GDP growth over a certain time horizon.

thanks for this video it was really good an enlightening.

I knew in large why Greece et al suffered so greatly during the financial crash but had no idea austerity policies were enacted post ww1 and were in part responsible for the great depression etc

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Anyone who compares globalised economies with household budgets is immediately shown to be economically illiterate.
Possibly one of the most absurd ideas bandid about by the current government.

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Concur - I'm a private landlord and as part of my job work closely with letting agents,social housing etc.
Tell them to do one.
They won't risk serving you notice and having the property empty as that'll piss the landlord off no end.

Also Jecross is just arguing for the sake of it now.
He has no background in economics (admittedly all I have is a grade B A - Level from 30 years ago) and is not prepared to learn the basics but feels entitled to pour scorn on the opinions of people who've made a life's study of it. Can't even be bothered to watch a one hour video in case he has to change his baseless opinion which is currently worth less than nothing.

You're welcome.
His writings are split into two sections on his site - "for academics" and "for normal people".
Well worth a look at the "for normal people" section.

http://www.markblyth.com/writings/fo...rity-delusion/

Ty, yes private. It's in the agreement to pay the fee for a renewal so I doubt I will get an agreement without paying Will offer to sign for 12 months while refusing to pay the fee. Good tenants yes, which is the annoying thing.

Epcfast turns out to be a literal rent seeker.

ty

Thanks v much.

Exactly. He didn't say consider.

I'm obviously not saying it's alike, I was using an example to explain we were talking about the long term impact, not the short term. The long term impacts aren't clear yet on austerity.

To be fair I'm more like an agony aunt/social worker to my tenants.
Haven't put the rent up for 8 years on either property.