The Tragic Death of Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman, Responsible Gun Owner - Page 29 - Politics and Economics

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The Tragic Death of Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman, Responsible Gun Owner

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03-22-2012 , 05:57 PM

#701

Charmer

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are there any other links for that audio? that one doesnt work for me, tried multiple browsers

03-22-2012 , 06:02 PM

#702

Money2Burn

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PDF of QnA w/ Sanford Police Chief.

I'm on my phone, but this has some good info. Obviously there's potential for CYA bias as its coming from the Chief, but w/e.

03-22-2012 , 06:02 PM

#703

NeBlis

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/video...-in-background

gunshot is about 40 seconds in. No screaming after that but you can hear it all the way up to that point.

thats right lady someone outside your house is screaming for help... just hide inside and call the cops, JFC.

03-22-2012 , 06:03 PM

#704

Case Closed

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Quote:

Originally Posted by NeBlis

thats right lady someone outside your house is screaming for help... just hide inside and call the cops, JFC.

If only they had guns they could have ran out there and started shooting people.

03-22-2012 , 06:04 PM

#705

BCPVP

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/video...-in-background

gunshot is about 40 seconds in. No screaming after that but you can hear it all the way up to that point.

Neither of them would have much reason to continue screaming after the gun was fired, regardless of who it was.

Either it was Martin in which case he stopped screaming because he was killed or it was Zimmerman in which case he no longer needed help.

03-22-2012 , 06:05 PM

#706

fredd-bird

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Case Closed

If only they had guns they could have ran out there and started shooting people.

I don't think she would've been protected by Stand Your Ground then since she actively sought out an engagement.

03-22-2012 , 06:06 PM

#707

surftheiop

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Quote:

Originally Posted by NeBlis

thats right lady someone outside your house is screaming for help... just hide inside and call the cops, JFC.

Things brings me to another hypothetical I was wondering about (I've learned a lot of about the law today), so whats the legality of one of these people hearing the screaming, running outside and seeing the kid get shot and then proceeding to shoot the shooter b/c they think he is about to go on some rampage?

03-22-2012 , 06:07 PM

#708

surftheiop

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Case Closed

If only they had guns they could have ran out there and started shooting people.

my pony is too slow

03-22-2012 , 06:07 PM

#709

Money2Burn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by NeBlis

thats right lady someone outside your house is screaming for help... just hide inside and call the cops, JFC.

Wait, are you implying she should have gone outside?

03-22-2012 , 06:10 PM

#710

rjoefish

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Quote:

Originally Posted by fredd-bird

I don't think she would've been protected by Stand Your Ground then since she actively sought out an engagement.

Wrong. Stand Your Ground laws (and really normal self defense laws) would protect you if you went out to help someone you thought was in extreme danger.

03-22-2012 , 06:12 PM

#711

Jonaspublius

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

Wrong. Stand Your Ground laws (and really normal self defense laws) would protect you if you went out to help someone you thought was in extreme danger.

So if I see a dark skinned man kiss a virtuous white woman I can shoot him to save her from a savage sexual predator?

03-22-2012 , 06:13 PM

#712

Money2Burn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BCPVP

Why would Zimmerman be screaming for help for so long? Like, why would Trayvon, who clearly didn't want a confrontation and just wanted to get away, continue to tormented Ximmerman for so long if he had him in as bad shape as the person who was screaming sounded like they were in? It seems more likely that he would have taken the opportunity to get the **** out of there than to torture his assailant.

03-22-2012 , 06:14 PM

#713

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Quote:

Originally Posted by surftheiop

Probably messy, which is why you shouldn't go running around and getting into gunfights unless you're forced to. I believe you have to have a reasonable fear that the person is an imminent threat to someone, not just that they might go on a rampage.

Sorry Neblis, that lady did just fine in my book. I sure as hell am not going to leave the safety and familiarity of my house to jump into a situation that I know nothing about.

03-22-2012 , 06:17 PM

#714

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Money2Burn

I'd like to hear Zimmerman's answers to those questions.

03-22-2012 , 06:18 PM

#715

surftheiop

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

Wrong. Stand Your Ground laws (and really normal self defense laws) would protect you if you went out to help someone you thought was in extreme danger.

What if the person who was in extreme danger was in extreme danger because someone else was exercising their own right to self defense.

03-22-2012 , 06:20 PM

#716

[Phill]

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The next questions is why was Trayvon face down in the grass with Zimmerman stood over him AND why were there two gunshots to stop the unarmed teen? Both according to witnesses.

This should have set off alarm bells for the cops investigating the incident.

03-22-2012 , 06:20 PM

#717

FlyWf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Money2Burn

Wait, are you implying she should have gone outside?

That lady really does seem like an enormous bitch, though. She's like sarcastic to the 911 operator?

03-22-2012 , 06:20 PM

#718

rjoefish

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Quote:

Originally Posted by surftheiop

What if the person who was in extreme danger was in extreme danger because someone else was exercising their own right to self defense.

What if what if? Who cares?

There was only one person with a gun in this situation and the law doesn't require you to know all the information to be considered justified.

03-22-2012 , 06:22 PM

#719

[Phill]

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Quote:

Originally Posted by surftheiop

What if the person who was in extreme danger was in extreme danger because someone else was exercising their own right to self defense.

If Florida laws are written the same as most places there is only a reasonable expectation. You dont have to be sure who is the good guy or bad guy or why anything is happening.

Its a side effect of an armed nation that a person defending themselves with a gun and not even necessarily using it but just drawing it could easily be killed by another person defending that first person all with no legal consequences.

But fwiw i think these hypotheticals are best dealt with in the stand your ground thread and we stick to the actual case in this one.

03-22-2012 , 06:28 PM

#720

surftheiop

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

What if what if? Who cares?

There was only one person with a gun in this situation and the law doesn't require you to know all the information to be considered justified.

I was just asking out of curiosity b/c Im not at all familiar with how these laws work.

As for the case at hand, it seems obvious to me that if the facts are anything close to what is being given to us by the media, that the amount of force used can't be justified.

03-22-2012 , 06:34 PM

#721

Money2Burn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

That lady really does seem like an enormous bitch, though. She's like sarcastic to the 911 operator?

Sounded like her husband was the bitch the way she was ordering him around. But yeah, her tone was really strange considering the circumstances. Like, really frightening **** is going down, so I'll go into sarcastic bitch mode. Wtf?

03-22-2012 , 06:42 PM

#722

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Quote:

Originally Posted by [Phill]

If Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman when he was shot, I can see him falling forward and landing face down. Zimmerman gets up and that's when police arrive.

03-22-2012 , 06:43 PM

#723

NeBlis

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Money2Burn

Wait, are you implying she should have gone outside?

I would have. Or at minimum gotten eyes on what was happening through a window. I have had a situation like that happen, Ive posted about it before. I will post again when I get home.

03-22-2012 , 06:44 PM

#724

[Phill]

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BCPVP

If Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman when he was shot, I can see him falling forward and landing face down. Zimmerman gets up and that's when police arrive.

This was immediately after the shots according to a witness i quoted on the last page, not the cops. Tbh im not sure if we can even trust what the cops say if it were public record.

03-22-2012 , 06:45 PM

#725

surftheiop

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BCPVP

If Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman when he was shot, I can see him falling forward and landing face down. Zimmerman gets up and that's when police arrive.

I assume this could be figured out based on where the bullets end up? (Or do handgun bullets not exit people?)

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