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The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

04-27-2017 , 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimedopay420
I see what you mean, but that was BEFORE dems got smoked by white supremacists in a general election. I think the logic fits a little better now.
But like, part of the reason they lost was the cozy relationship between the establishment Dems and the financial sector.
04-27-2017 , 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HastenDan
Jesus Salon

These morons are really lessening my optimism for 2018/2020. Hillary's toxic campaign and toxic supporters are poisoning the well of progressivism. Kind of just like ol' HastenDan predicted months before the general election.
Did you even read that entire article or did you just kneejerk behind somebody writing that B Sand might be less than perfect?

Because that seems to highlight very well the one big chink in his armor. And none of that is new! It's just different personal takes on the same analysis, and it's the glaring flaw that all of his objective supporters have noticed. My personal take has slightly different motivations and conclusions but it's the same basic soup.
04-27-2017 , 06:15 PM
Danny,

Lol wait it just hit me. The one thing that makes all The Real Sanders' Supporters cringe and facepalm is the one thing that gets your loins all frothy? This all makes sense now.
04-27-2017 , 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
THis is exactly the same logic that "liberals" used when people got concerned about the surveillance state "Oh well I like Obama I'm sure he won't do anything bad" and then drone strikes "Oh I like Obama so I'm sure whoever he extrajudiciously assassinates really needed killin" and oh guess what, now TRUMP is driving the bus.
this is an issue of transparency, judicial oversight, and due process, not whether surveillance capabilities exist within the government.
04-27-2017 , 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuffle
You'll have to point out what mask you are referring to and make clear whatever point it is that you are trying to make.
Lawl "save me from all the equality" man f--k right off you troll.
04-27-2017 , 06:23 PM
Except Bernie was the "Our black brothers and sisters, our Hispanic brothers and sisters, our Native American brothers and sisters", he's the one who campaigned for Jesse Jackson when the white liberal said "that's not realistic. Be patient. " and he's the one who protested for civil rights from the 60s on, he's the one who championed the migrant farm workers and he was one of the first mayors to embrace agay pride parade.

The white male hero bit may apply to some of his supporters and sure as hell was pushed by his DemE detractors, but it's not him.
04-27-2017 , 06:35 PM
Sanders, that well known third way centrist
04-27-2017 , 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
But like, part of the reason they lost was the cozy relationship between the establishment Dems and the financial sector.
Yeah but that's just a tiny part of the reason imo, and things are so ****ed up now that it seems crazy we're even talking about the optics of this.

The main reason is because dems always start negotiating from the middle just in case the other party isn't feeling totally racist that day. We never take control of the conversation. That's what Bernie was so good at. No matter what the question was he would say, "go **** yourself. I'm raising taxes on the rich." Hillary email question? "**** that question, lets talk about citizens united."

Worrying about this is like making sure your hair looks perfect when you haven't brushed your teeth in a year. But I could be wrong
04-27-2017 , 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
Except Bernie was the "Our black brothers and sisters, our Hispanic brothers and sisters, our Native American brothers and sisters", he's the one who campaigned for Jesse Jackson when the white liberal said "that's not realistic. Be patient. " and he's the one who protested for civil rights from the 60s on, he's the one who championed the migrant farm workers and he was one of the first mayors to embrace agay pride parade.

The white male hero bit may apply to some of his supporters and sure as hell was pushed by his DemE detractors, but it's not him.
That Salon article plays fast and loose but I'd say I'll cosign this:

Quote:
Further, Sanders routinely divides matters of race and gender and class — which, again, cannot be untwined — by discussing the “pain” and needs of working-class voters and perpetuating the dangerous myth that the Democrats have ignored them. Sanders has insisted that Democrats have failed to reach these voters, while dismissing the fact that 75 percent of working-class voters of color voted for Clinton, not Trump, last year.
But not this:

Quote:
The Democrats should, of course, also tighten their economic message and link it to the broader issues of identity, rights and opportunity and listen to and respond to voters disillusioned with corporate and special-interest money in our electoral process. They should do this work along with fighting against voter suppression — another major factor in the current electoral schema — and increasing voter registration and get-out-the-vote efforts while fighting the scourge of Republican gerrymandering. It is long past time to sideline Sanders and his irresponsible and divisive narrative of white economic populism and move into that critical work.
04-27-2017 , 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sylar
this is an issue of transparency, judicial oversight, and due process, not whether surveillance capabilities exist within the government.
Yes? I didn't say the underlying issue is the same. The logic of the apologists is the same. "I like Obama so this is actually good"
04-27-2017 , 07:30 PM
The only slightly less ridiculous version of 'COOAAAL JERBS!!' is just that, only slightly less ridiculous.

But I think it kinda stops there, and painting Sanders as some secret white supremacist is lolworthy. I wouldn't even say there's a racial component as with trump, rather it's just Sanders responding to his Dinosaur Marxism triggers with nobody really pulling him aside and pressing the issue like, "As stated this is pretty much a Top Five white supremacy talking point now, so at the very least we need to find a different way to articulate it."
04-27-2017 , 07:37 PM
@5ive: Cmon bro. This is an article that among other absurdities describes Bernie as a "mansplainer." It's bad.
04-27-2017 , 08:18 PM
Hot take: Glass-Steagall is a third rail for the DemE and if E. Warren runs for POTUS they'll find a slightly more polite way to call her Pochahontis.
04-27-2017 , 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ive
That Salon article plays fast and loose but I'd say I'll cosign this:



But not this:
The problem is that the 75% is true but also fallacious in the sense they want it to mean. It goes something like this, POC make up the majority of the working class and we captured POCs therefore we've captured the working class, but that's not true if you've made appeals to POC as POC and not as the working class. If that's the case you can have the working class out there suffering and you can be losing working class votes and still have the majority of POC's votes.

You could say that Sanders needs to be more intersectional and discuss interest groups needs more in conjuction with economic concerns but that cuts both ways too.
04-27-2017 , 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuffle
Your reading comprehension skills appear to be in need of improvement. Since you seem to have misread my post, why don't you go back and try again.
You didn't deserve the first try but trust me, fans of your work noticed.
04-27-2017 , 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
Yes? I didn't say the underlying issue is the same. The logic of the apologists is the same. "I like Obama so this is actually good"
Transparency and judicial oversight is also important for the issue of corruption. You don't want to get rid of private and public sector cooperation altogether. You need stronger ethics rules and better oversight.
04-27-2017 , 11:00 PM
The corporate democrats don't want Bernie anywhere near the cockpit.
04-27-2017 , 11:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuffle
That Salon article is trash. Pretty much everything from the Democratic Party and their mouthpieces is trash these days. Real progressives realize that the way forward is not going to include the Democratic Party.
I'm compelled to post this repeatedly in rainbow colors, but that's probably Obama's fault.
04-27-2017 , 11:31 PM
Yeah I was out of line there. Sorry bro
04-28-2017 , 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
Hot take: Glass-Steagall is a third rail for the DemE and if E. Warren runs for POTUS they'll find a slightly more polite way to call her Pochahontis.
Never; the Pocohontas **** is here to say.
04-28-2017 , 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
Never; the Pocohontas **** is here to say.
I mean the Democrats will be finding a more polite way of calling her Pocohontas. I don't think they've gotten into that yet.
04-28-2017 , 01:18 AM
I feel like we continually go in circles with these arguments and the same people wind up on the same sides and we continually rehash the same things -_-

Speaking of Warren she thinks Obama's $400K is "troubling" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ6tFpOk0cw
04-28-2017 , 02:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCheese
@5ive: Cmon bro. This is an article that among other absurdities describes Bernie as a "mansplainer." It's bad.
Those are the bells and whistles but the lede wasn't buried.

Quote:
[E]ven some on the self-proclaimed socialist left, like Sanders, now seem willing to sell out abortion rights in pursuit of the elusive vote of the working-class white man. There’s no evidence that moving right on abortion will gain Democratic votes. But it’s an appeal to the same dynamic Trump ran on: a bygone America, the symbol of which is the white factory man, able to support his children and a stay-at-home wife on the salary he earned doing good honest work with his hands.

That writer seems to think this is a deal-breaker whereas I don't think it's that big of a deal, as it's been there since the start, and I feel this disagreement is a minor detail.
04-28-2017 , 06:34 AM
Sanders sold out the 2k capacity Bord Gais theatre in Dublin in under a minute.
04-28-2017 , 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
I mean the Democrats will be finding a more polite way of calling her Pocohontas. I don't think they've gotten into that yet.
There is zero doubt. They're STILL massively butthurt about bernie, they would absolutely MOAB Warren if she wanders outside of her assigned area.

      
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