Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic. A thread for discussing whether the recent tweet of Ilhan Omar was antisemitic.

03-07-2019 , 10:06 PM
Lol (wp)
03-07-2019 , 10:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by All-In Flynn
Yeah, I'm really having trouble getting on board with "It is antisemitic to suggest a political lobbying group influences policy", have to say.
Yeah. Seems to me the problem is that the antisemitic trope -- Jews use money/power below the surface to influence things -- is pretty close to what lobbying groups literally do.

Which is why I think intention should matter a lot here.
03-07-2019 , 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33
She also tweeted Israel has hypnotized the world (with their Jew powers I suppose) and trotted out another old chestnut about Jewish Americans having dual loyalty.

I mean I guess maybe she just accidentally chooses inflammatory language over and over? Possible I suppose. But hate crimes against Jews are on the rise in the US, as is anti-Semitism globally, so maybe elected leaders need to be a little more careful.
No she didn't.
03-07-2019 , 11:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33
She also tweeted Israel has hypnotized the world (with their Jew powers I suppose) and trotted out another old chestnut about Jewish Americans having dual loyalty.
The "hypnotize" quote is many years older, but is actually the only one that made me uncomfortable. It's the sort of thing that makes me check closely the other things they say. Is this a person who simply meant that Israel is an effective media manager, or that all Jews have magical powers of villainy? The latter is not borne out by her record. She consistently distinguishes between the state policies and the ethnicity.

And revots, this is the second time you've made the ugly slight of hand of claiming Omar was talking about the Jewish ethnicity when it was actually about the Israel lobby. Her statement was that the pro-Israel lobby demands that she have loyalty to a foreign power as the price for serving in office. That's factually true. Representative Juan Vargas Tweeted on March 4 that "questioning support for the U.S.-Israel relationship is unacceptable." WTF.

David Simon (The Wire, Homicide, etc.) Tweeted:
Quote:
Her critics are hiding in the mock outrage over dual loyalty. If anyone is so committed to having Israel supported that they seek to subvert the republic by demanding silencing of dissent, then I'm entirely ready to query their loyalty to the American experiment.
BTW, numerically, I'm pretty sure that Jews are not the most numerous part of pro-Israel activists -- it's Christian evangelicals. So Ilhan was not even talking mainly about Jews when she challenged the lobby.

Revots, one drawback to your conflating Jews with Israel is that people might be persuaded. Then you get all Jews being blamed every time the IDF devestates 1,500 homes in Gaza in one go.

Last edited by Bill Haywood; 03-07-2019 at 11:26 PM.
03-07-2019 , 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
I don't think it's very true. Maybe Hollywood producers? Maybe administrators of online poker forums?
Hollywood and Banking is what I was thinking.
03-07-2019 , 11:30 PM
She said she wanted to talk about why "...it is OK for people to push allegiance to a foreign country."

Her explanation is nonsense. She's obviously accusing Jewish Americans of pushing allegiance to Israel. And hypnosis? C'mon. The explanation about evangelicals making up the majority of Israel lobby is non-sense. She's given zero indication she knows about that little fact that would have given her an easy out directing the fury in GOP's evangelical base's direction.

And I really don't think you can read her apology as sincere. She literally followed "...unequivocally" with "But at the same time" without ever saying she's sorry for the pain she caused. That's equivocation by any reasonable reading of her "apology."

She couldn't even get herself to say sorry to the Jewish Americans that were hurt by her unintentionally trafficking in anti-Semitic tropes. That tells me a lot more about how she feels about Jews than the original "all about the Benjamins" BS.

Still, again, her willingness to at least try to do better makes her way better than the imbecile we have as POTUS.

Last edited by grizy; 03-07-2019 at 11:39 PM.
03-07-2019 , 11:33 PM
Grizy is telling on himself

Here's the tweet.

03-07-2019 , 11:35 PM
Quit making it so obvious you're just mad at her because she is of a religion in your disfavor.
03-07-2019 , 11:41 PM
She literally followed unequivocally with "at the same time" in that tweet and there is nowhere in that apology where she apologized to the Jewish people that were hurt by her unintentional trafficking of Jewish tropes. It's just a general "I apologize" to nobody in particular.

Try telling your significant other or your boss "I apologize but..." when you screw up big next time and see how that goes over.
03-07-2019 , 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmgGlutten!
Hollywood and Banking is what I was thinking.
Can you think of any father/son bankers? Tons of those Goldman-Sachs guys are Jewish and a couple of Goldman's descendants were bankers, but I don't see any Goldmans or Sachs as key people there now and of the key people there now I don't see any parents or children who are big bankers.

There were a lot of medieval European Jewish banking families (Rothschilds etc), but I dunno that that's much of a thing now and there were reasons then.
03-07-2019 , 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizy
She literally followed unequivocally with "at the same time" in that tweet and there is nowhere in that apology where she apologized to the Jewish people that were hurt by her unintentional trafficking of Jewish tropes. It's just a general "I apologize" to nobody in particular.

Try telling your significant other or your boss "I apologize but..." when you screw up big next time and see how that goes over.
lol
03-07-2019 , 11:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizy
She literally followed unequivocally with "at the same time" in that tweet and there is nowhere in that apology where she apologized to the Jewish people that were hurt by her unintentional trafficking of Jewish tropes. It's just a general "I apologize" to nobody in particular.

Try telling your significant other or your boss "I apologize but..." when you screw up big next time and see how that goes over.
Oh please.

She apologized for being offensive and says she in communication with Jewish peers to make it better, but didn't apologize for what even Bernie Sanders just today or yesterday called a legit complaint.

If you think the "but" in her apology is a problem then the problem is you, not her.
03-07-2019 , 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul D
Oh please.

She apologized for being offensive and says she in communication with Jewish peers to make it better, but didn't apologize for what even Bernie Sanders just today or yesterday called a legit complaint.

If you think the "but" in her apology is a problem then the problem is you, not her.
Hadn't looked at candidate reactions. Bernie seems to have the best reaction. Harris and Warren defending Ilhan by saying threats of violence against her are wrong. Duh.
03-07-2019 , 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizy
She tweeted she wanted to talk about why "...it is OK for people to push allegiance to a foreign country.". . .And I really don't think you can read her apology as sincere.
You are combining different events. The apology was for the Benjamins tweet. The foreign allegiance business was from oral presentation at a talk, I think in Minnesota. She was clearly talking about the lobby. Anyone talking in public about Israel/Palestine learns in a huge hurry not to fuzz the line between Jew and Zionist. I lived in Minneapolis five years, we breathe this stuff, and that's the milieu she came out of.

Quote:
She's obviously accusing Jewish Americans of pushing allegiance to Israel.
Watch the effing clip. And include the several sentences before she gets to "foreign country." Her critics are straight up lying. That is, if they bothered to listen.

Quote:
The explanation about evangelicals making up the majority of Israel lobby is non-sense. She's given zero indication she knows about
The dogs in the street know that. She is a "well spoken," Negro, after all. And a Muslim politician publicly challenging AIPAC couldn't not know, what with all the threats showing very clearly who hates her.

I'm fine with a lame but politic apology because she had nothing to apologize for. The scandal was all manufactured, all based on conflating Jews with Israel and then accusing her of the same.
03-08-2019 , 12:13 AM
Can 'Breaking Benjamin' be anti-Semitic? I'd really like to be rid of them once and for good
03-08-2019 , 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
Can you think of any father/son bankers? Tons of those Goldman-Sachs guys are Jewish and a couple of Goldman's descendants were bankers, but I don't see any Goldmans or Sachs as key people there now and of the key people there now I don't see any parents or children who are big bankers.

There were a lot of medieval European Jewish banking families (Rothschilds etc), but I dunno that that's much of a thing now and there were reasons then.
yeah, it generally seems like a lot of the banking big shots you see on tv are jewish. same with hollywood producers/executives. looking at the list of goldman sach ceos, seems like they are all jewish.
03-08-2019 , 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmgGlutten!
yeah, it generally seems like a lot of the banking big shots you see on tv are jewish. same with hollywood producers/executives. looking at the list of goldman sach ceos, seems like they are all jewish.
Jews are definitely very well represented in investment banking. It's almost surely below 50%, but well above the percent of Jews in America. But that doesn't mean it's nepotism.
03-08-2019 , 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmgGlutten!
Looking at the list of goldman sach ceos, seems like they are all jewish.
Does your list include Jon Corzine (Italian), John Cunningham Whitehead (maybe he's Jewish, but not the most Jewish name) and Henry Paulson (Christian Scientist)?
03-08-2019 , 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
There were a lot of medieval European Jewish banking families (Rothschilds etc), but I dunno that that's much of a thing now and there were reasons then.
The bible says we should not lend money...lets have the Jews do it! Later...the Jews control all the money lets expel or kill them!
03-08-2019 , 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
The bible says we should not lend money...lets have the Jews do it! Later...the Jews control all the money lets expel or kill them!
Yep.

Court Jew
03-08-2019 , 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf
frankly, the psychologically morbid, fundamental christian ideology of "original sin", and the christian tradition of faith-based epistemology in direct opposition to reason, do imo combine to put christians at a distinct disadvantage over non-christians generally

combined with the apparent whiteness of jews (thereby dodging many disadvantages of non-christian POC), I don't find it surprising to see a disproportionate number of jews is professional disciplines

but it's easy, maybe, for some jews to point to their own "chosen people" dogma as an explanation, (ironically?) not unlike how europeans looked to the technological state of the indigenous peoples of Africa or America as proof of their own divine superiority
i'd argue the biggest and most obvious factor is that jews tend not to (and in some ways actively discourage) proselytization. There are Christian sects like Anglicans that do comparably well for similar reasons but denominations like catholics/muslims who go above and beyond to recruit downtrodden lag behind by these measures.
03-08-2019 , 04:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbaddabba
i'd argue the biggest and most obvious factor is that jews tend not to (and in some ways actively discourage) proselytization. There are Christian sects like Anglicans that do comparably well for similar reasons but denominations like catholics/muslims who go above and beyond to recruit downtrodden lag behind by these measures.
That would explain the discrepancy if 80-90 percent of those religions were those recruited downtrodden.
03-08-2019 , 07:20 AM
Oh boy.
03-08-2019 , 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revots33
She also tweeted Israel has hypnotized the world (with their Jew powers I suppose) and trotted out another old chestnut about Jewish Americans having dual loyalty.

I mean I guess maybe she just accidentally chooses inflammatory language over and over? Possible I suppose. But hate crimes against Jews are on the rise in the US, as is anti-Semitism globally, so maybe elected leaders need to be a little more careful.
ya but why are you lying so much?
03-08-2019 , 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorio
Bagel industrial complex.

      
m