The Weinstein story changed it. It showed that Weinstein didn't one off sexually harrass women, he was a predator. It also showed him using his power to silence women who did come toward. Combining those showed that sexual harassment wasn't just a discrete harm to a woman here and there but usually men in power committed sexual harassment/assault as a pattern because of their power and also used that power in subtle or not so subtle ways to hide their tracks or make it seem like a one off incident..

I'd date the change as Trump's election and the Women's March.

I'm not sure diddly squat has changed for real. Most of those being outed, someone wanted them out anyway (I'd imagine Matt Lauer cost too much) ... Roy Moore losing doesn't prove anything has changed, because he'd have lost in any civilized state ...

Hell, even Weinstein seems to be riding this out.

Chris Matthews, come on down!

Indeed. The other side of the mistake of looking for a moment when it all changed is to think it has all changed in a moment. It's gradual progress with occasional dramatic events.

None the less, much as we hope that Weinstein and others will be properly prosecuted/sacked/etc, the important thing in political progress is that, for example, in the future powerful sexually abusive operators like Weinstein cannot thrive in the way that he did.

Hovering around 60, I'm old enough to claim the wisdom of age.

This is different. Seen nothing like it never.

There's a tremendous backlog of harassment to be exposed and it is just getting going. Thousands of conscientious people positioned in HR and other places now have lots more leverage.

I'm what you call a sensitive male feminist, and this has been a wake up moment even for me. I understood the danger of rape and assault, but this has given me an appreciation of the relentless, day-to-day, lifelong, soul-sucking pestering, bullying, and manipulating that goes on -- the stuff that is not prosecutable as assault. I flip out over minor bureaucratic slights, I don't see how career women make it in fields like engineering.

There are still millions of women who get by through tolerating and shrugging off being pushed around by men. These are the ones saying "this is getting out of hand, now every man is in danger of accusations." So there are still plenty more reservoirs of women to get woke. When speaking up improves a situation, people will do it. This is going to go and go.

I'm curious what you found perfectly reasonable about his comments?

I wasn't the person who said that, but I found them reasonable also. While I hope it will help women for these things to be aired, I don't think that some of the charges are bad enough that, even if true, should ruin someone's career. Louis C. K., for example, seems to have done things that were fairly minor (and even unsurprising given his comedy), and I hate that his new movie was pulled. Obviously what Weinstein has allegedly done was much worse, both in the action and the way but may have affected women's careers.

I get where you're coming from. I've also been rethinking some of my current behavior (I know some of my behavior 20 years ago wasn't up to snuff) and attitudes. And the progress made socially with respect to racism and sexuality issues is evidence that education and awareness are important.

But the US Congress is only 1/5th women right now, in 2017. That's far more consequential than all the other stuff. (The US ranks around #100 by this metric - among big countries Mexico, South Africa, Spain, France are all much better, with around 40% women in their congress/parliament.) Likewise for boardrooms, executives, high end employment generally.

You mention engineering. MIT has only reached near gender equity in admissions in recent years ...

Speaking up is important, but it needs to be accompanied by concrete changes in the distribution of power.

Bullseye. Positive discrimination is the key. Everything else will get their in the end but it will be slow and painful.

Presuming women are equally qualified and equally inclined to get into these positions, why would positive discrimination be necessary?

Note that many arguments used for positive racial discrimination (large educational imbalance, the self-perpetuating nature of being stuck in impoverished communities) are not valid here.

"Damon said alleged sexual misconduct by powerful men involved 'a spectrum of behaviour'."

"Damon said there was 'a difference between patting someone on the butt and rape or child molestation. Both of those behaviours need to be confronted and eradicated without question, but they shouldn’t be conflated.'”

https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...derstand-abuse

Hey Chill, your posts have helped my poker game, so let me try and return the favor by helping you become a better human being: It's NOT reasonable!

Also:

This is insane. You think whipping your dick out and masturbating in front of an unsuspecting woman is fairly minor?

Asking women who came to your hotel room with you if you can do that is fairly minor, yes. Weird, but fairly minor.

Damon was mansplaining from what I understand. Minnie Driver's response basically of "NO DUH" was perfect.

The expression "tone deaf" or "bad look" is a sign of not having a point, or at least being afraid to make it.

Yeah that is how I see it as well. The women weren't unsuspecting, he asked first.

What about instead he had asked nicely if he could have sex with them and then did so after they said yes? I have a feeling he would not be taking any heat about that behavior. Seems like he just got punished because his sexual preferences are unusual.

I don’t believe the women agreed that the wanted him to masturbatein front of them.

I mean, okay, but he's mostly just being super awkward and/or has weird sexual tastes. "Fairly minor" still seems like it describes it to me.

He stated that he always asked permission first, and AFAIK no one has denied that.

LOL so all I need to do so excuse any sort of anti-social behavior is ask permission first (whether it's granted or not)?

No one doesn't denied that permission wasn't granted either.

And it depends on your definition of anti social behavior. Be careful about applying that term to someone's sexual preferences. Homosexuality is also unusual, but I don't think consensual homosexual activity should be punished.

Matt made the mistake of expressing nuance. The overwhelming majority of people can't handle deeper discussions of controversial issues in a reasonable way especially if it deviates even slightly from their own view. Now, I don't think Matt said anything groundbreaking but going deeper into an issue is not something that should be discouraged.

Unfortunately, it is these days. Political and social discourse is restricted to sound bites and hot takes rather than detailed discussion of difficult issues. If you disagree with someone even slightly but can't explain what you mean within a minute or so, then nobody will listen. The tolerance for alternative views, no matter their merit, is almost non-existent. It's either blind agreement without questioning or you face a shellacking. That's not a productive discussion.

When something as serious as sexual harassment comes to the forefront, a frank and open discussion must take place in society with all complexities fleshed out for everyone to see and understand. It will lead to people coming into contact with ideas they may feel uncomfortable with but it's the spread of these ideas to a mainstream populace that allows for social change to occur.

What sort of nuance shall we inject into the conversation on whether or not it's appropriate to masturbate in front of strangers?

I don't think some of you are at all familiar with the events as described in the media. These were with people he knew who were in his hotel room, not strangers.

Just really awful stuff from Driver. Not only is there "no heirarchy of abuse", but men shouldn't even be voicing opinions on the matter.

This isn't a "what you said is so obvious that its stupid" rant, she's literally arguing against what is so obvious. Just brand everyone accused of sexual *something* abusers, throw them under the bus, and call it a day I guess.