Classy mate. Classy.

What do you call doing sexual things to a person when they dont want you to?

After reading that email to Banfield I'm alt-right now. What the ****.

What does ENTHUSIASTIC look like? Is this uniform across all females and males? Does an extroverted swinger show ENTHUSIASM in the same way as a shy introvert? If I do not detect outright ENTHUSIASM upon the first sign of affection, do I have to consider seduction a dead art and call it a night? Perhaps we can make a chart showing the correct ENTHUSIASTIC face that we can all follow to properly convey our nonverbal ENTHUSIASM for getting laid.

Being insensitive, selfish and wanting a first date to quickly escalate into sex despite that not being previously discussed fall into the realm of "Aziz Ansari is bad at dating" not "Arizona Ansari has his own history of predatory behavior". If all those things happened but Ansari accepted--even while being selfish and clumsy--that she was not into doing more than making out, this indeed would have been just a bad date. The sex stuff alone is plenty. This could've been the greatest date ever up until Ansari decided to not respect her objections and nothing changes.

Again, none of this makes Ansari less of a creep who engaged in some degree of predatory behavior, I just think these were unforced errors that give an alternate narrative far more credibility than it deserves.

I wrote an article for my university's quarterly about this whole thing....it'll be awhile before it's out, so I thought I'd post it here for you guys:

#MeToo, Aziz Ansari, Cat Person,
And Why Yes Can Turn Into No



Feel free to comment about it or tell me I'm full of crap.

That's a weird rhetorical device you're using there, that it's not a big deal to have this sexual encounter publicised because worse violations of privacy have happened in the past. That's much the same formulation as saying that Grace's story isn't a big deal because Weinstein happened.

If the encounter is being depicted accurately, Ansari deserves everything coming to him. The problem is, I'm not convinced it is. Read that email from goofy. That is the person you're trusting to give an accurate account of events. It's extremely clear to me that she will have done everything in her power to make Ansari look bad in the article. We have no idea, for example, of whether Grace said or did things that are omitted from the article.

Jesus. You all ever had a woman want to **** you before? You don't need a chart.

I never figured myself for a particularly attractive dude but the need some of these guys have for a pepper spray in the face/running out of a room crying yes or no checklist being the only way they can tell if a woman is into their seduction or not is making me wonder.

lol yeah, I don't get it, either. It's fairly simple to read the cues...I thought.

My point is this is not nearly as black and white as you would like it to be. Case in point, if you talked to Aziz the next day after that hook up, you would have gotten a much different interpretation of how things went. Just to reiterate, in this specific story, sure I would expect most men to do a better job of picking up on the signals Aziz was getting (or not act so teenager who only knows about sex through porn kind of horny). But seduction and enthusiasm do not look the same across all woman and men, there's a lot of gray area here. A man can think a woman is into what he's doing and her internal monologue isn't so enthusiastic. A man can think a woman isn't into him and her internal monologue can be enthusiastic.

This is also something that comes along with more experience -- does every male teenager or inexperienced male adult have a keen eye for the nonverbal clues that show when a woman has reached the correct level of enthusiasm?

Think that's a good piece.

Reading cues is 99% of the problem.

People need to TALK before sex. Have a conversation about likes, dislikes, boundaries and consent.

This is absolutely common in LGBT and S&M sexual encounters yet the heterosexual vanilla world continues to operate under the idea that good sex stems from no communication and accurately reading subtle cues.

It is literally the easiest thing in the world to solve.

Rapeydonkey, get back to work on that consent equation, stat!

So true. All of this. So, is there a solution besides men being clueless and figuring it out (or not) at the expense of their partners, themselves and maybe even relationships and good encounters? It's been pointed out before but Aziz lost out on a woman who was interested in him for maybe sex and more than that. He is a victim of his own cluelessness or selfishness as well.

I think there is. It is what this conversation is about. I can tell you I am for sure going to teach my son and daughter how to navigate this when they get older and I was not taught my my parents. It's needs illuminating. That is the value in having this convo.

I do feel empathy for Aziz being the one who is paying a personal price for it but the notion he is destroyed is bull****. The hand wringing over his privacy is valid to a certain extent, but celebrities and public figures have a much lower expectation for that and a much higher responsibility to themselves to stay squeaky clean. It's nothing new. Most of the men who are really concerned about that now likely also looked at leaked nudes of actresses and probably didn't bang out their dismay on message boards.

The women who play coy/hard to get will pay a price if that behavior is rebuked by men in the interest of self protection also. If a woman sends mixed signals and that ends the encounter she will eventually have to be more "enthusiastic" or clear if she wants it also. Eventually the whole dynamic will become less about women "allowing" and men "getting" in the mainstream. That will be safer for everyone.

About as classy as "Grace" the bravest chic this reporter has ever known, excuse me, used.

This from the guy who is crying over Weinstein getting an "unfair" accusation added to his rape sheet. You gonna be pen pals if he goes to prison?

Alternative interpretation. He knew exactly what happened and that she was not okay. He lied in the text.

I dont know why you all are giving him the benefit of the doubt here and assuming a mistake.

His job is looking at dating and social interactions. Most men would pick up the truth here, he is not most men, he is clearly better at this than average.

They're appalling at it which is why a) it needs to be dsicussed and taught as part of general education, b) be treated far more realistically on TV, films etc and c) if in any sort of grey area then stop - your partner will either make it clear they want to continue or, worst case, you miss out.

So if a woman consents to you giving her oral sex on a kitchen counter five minutes after you bring her home... and then she gives you oral sex right after that... how would you say the night is going so far? Terrible? Time to slam on the brakes?

Thanks, Chris!

Other actual stories Katie Way authored on Babe.net: "Am I High As ****, Or Do These Celebrities Low-Key Look Alike?" and "Sorry, But Kendall Jenner Can't Model for ****".

With journalistic credentials like that, who can dispute her faultless handling of the situation?

You may have seen references to "cat person" in the aziz discussion.

This is a short story from the new yorker.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2.../11/cat-person

Its worth a read, although the narrator is fairly unlikable at times. Especially for the guys here who are struggling with the idea that women can give/receive head and yet be super uncomfortable etc.

Aziz is not guilty of sexual assault or sexual harassment in that case.

Just want to point out that it's now a lot worse than this. It's now this woman's post-hoc interpretations of the encounter, as then reinterpreted by someone who is both passionately in her corner, and unstable and stupid enough to abuse an excellent female journalist about her looks for daring to have a different take on the case. This is not someone who takes kindly to the idea that the same events can have multiple interpretations.

Worth pointing out that Ansari is doing here what men are supposed to do, which is to listen, take her account seriously, and apologise that she feels that way. As a result what he gets is this:

If he came out and said something like "this is a frankly hysterical account of what happened, her description of the tenor of the encounter is complete nonsense" then he would be excoriated on social media for not listening.

If she says she does not want to go any farther and she will hate me if we did its brakes time.