Yes it is understandable. The Swedish way is that we pay very high taxes and the state takes good care of us. That picture is now crackling all over. There is no money for the care for the elderly, no housing, schools are getting worse and worse, childcare aswell, general healthcare is worse. The list is long and in the middle there is a huge elephant that our politicians have told the people is a winning endeavour.

Or it was a winning endeavour untill recently when the politicians had to do something to stop the costs from totally sinking the country and thats when the charade was up. So yes i can understand if some people lose it and do something as stupid as what happened in Stockholm.

None of that makes it "understandable" to run out onto the streets and attack random immigrants. This was not some random act of desperation. This was carefully planned with hooligans from two rivaling clubs joining together and inviting the local nazis along for a walk with the sole purpose of beating up people with the wrong skin color. None of this is even remotely understandable to a normal person. Besides, these are not random citizens. The two hooligan fractions who arranged this action(DFG and Firman Boys) are known to be extreme nationalists long before this whole refugee crisis got started.

You're way over the top here. These are real racist scum who enjoy the hatred and violence.

They aren't reacting to the Flies or the liberal media.

Yeah. It's completely ridiculous and pathetic to blame this on the media. A lot of the people involved in this action were actual neo-nazis. I'm sure those neo-nazis were nice and peaceful people until the evil media decided to force them into beating up immigrant children.

Yes thats the easy explanation. They are racist scum lets move on...

The tougher one is that we have huge problems in Sweden regarding immigration. The media(not liberal) and government(both left and right) have for a long time been actively trying to decieve the general public about the negatives while inflating the positives. When that bubble bursts it gives morons like the ones in Stockholm some sense of justification in doing what they are doing.

Yeah lets move on. The tougher problem is the political situation and the refugee crises. The fact these racists scum try to exploit problems is something that can only be dealt with by tackling the real problems and, of course, measures to tackle the racist scum directly within the law.

Take it easy mate.

Vote?

Also i work with alot of 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants and just as i do with native Swedish youths i try my best to teach them Swedish democratic values.

Im glad you chimed in again Fly because it once again showed how utterly delusional you are. Throwing your racist accusations on everyone you disagree with really should be bannable but i guess since wookie lets your stupidity run wild the dunce cap will suffice for now.

But that's not the immigrants fault. I find this way of arguing laughable. Omg we don't have money for elderly, infrastructure, education and so on. For decades we let people and corporations exploit the weakest people everywhere in the world. We closed our eyes when we traded with countries where only few people take all the money which should belong to the people. Now we get the fallout and we try to argue "Listen we are too dumb to use our taxes efficiently so refugees have to stay out. And we are also too dumb to collect the right amount of taxes because we believe in the lies of all the corporations that we would lose jobs otherwise." I have an idea: How about we get some ships, put the refugees on it and then bring them to all the tax
haven's in the world. Maybe they will change their business model in the process.

Most of the people are coming from countries that the west had minimal trade with. You would be better off arguing that we should "exploit" more.

Yes its not the immigrants fault. It is however the fault of immigration. You need to learn the difference between the two before you start questioning arguments.

We have the money but its being funneled away into a very costly and ineffective immigration and integration project that is being kept going by people that cant see the damage they are doing because they are so ideologically overwhelmed by how good their actions look amongst their ilk.


Those evil corporations... Down with the patriarchy aswell i assume...

I have an idea: How about we get some ships, put the refugees on it and then take them back where they come from

You can't be serious telling me that all your problems are from immigration. The main bulk of refugees is coming since June last year now and you already think you can tell that all the money has been diverted. I doubt that.

Well I think a lot of countries have treaties with Saudi Arabia which is known for paying lots of islamic preachers all over the world. Especially those who teach a very strict interpretation of the Koran. So they are basically creating the pool where ISIS finds new recruits.

So mister expert, what triggered this?

We have many issues that arent related to immigration. The thing is that they are overshadowed by the issues that our very irresponsible immigration has caused. We need to build like a million appartments to satiate the needs because of the immigration. That in a country where building is incredibly expensive and riddled with beurocratic obstacles.We need more teachers than what is possible to educate in a short span. We need more police because the current one isnt made to handle the ever growing crime that our immigration policy has caused. The whole public sector is on their knees because they are understaffed and underfunded.

You dont seem very knowledgable about this tbh. Sweden and Germany have been taking in alot of ME refugees for far longer than that. Its just that since June last year even Sweden and Germany couldnt hold up the charade that this was sustainable and that spilled over into the rest of europe. So yes in Sweden you can clearly tell what happens since we have had the same immigration policys for a long time.

There is a mistake I often object to of making oversimplifying and overstated posts about other posters . It can be funny and even intended to serve a political purpose but it's still a mistake and taken too far it's a harmful mistake. I believe that's true of how Fly posts but overstating and oversimplifying the impact of Fly's approach to posting is the same mistake and also harmful.

I don't think we should be ignoring the harmful aspects of political debate even as we encourage often difficult political debate. It's a difficult line but still important to pursue.

Mass starvation on the table for Aleppo. http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-n...99E0D8FCF27CE0

Great job Sweden and Germany. Instead of helping close to all refugees in nearby countries we help a small percentage in our countries. Awesome job incompetent politicians.

Christ you couldnt be reaching more. This is embarrassing. What exactly do you think can be done in Aleppo with Assad forces starting to surround the place? The starving isnt by accident. Starving is what they want.

This is the actual situation:

Those fleeing are ending are being denied at the borders and sometimes turning back because there's no way out. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...sh-border.html

There's no way out because the numbers are causing neighboring countries to turn more hostile http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/08/wo...esentment.html

There's no safety, life or future for anyone in those camps anyway http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/bo...-rawlence.html (yeah it's kenya, but the point is the same).

So those leaving really are forced into situations like this http://blogs.afp.com/correspondent/?...baby-were-mine

And all because awful Europeans like you cant face spending 0.something of gdp on accepting refugees. https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft...16/sdn1602.pdf (page 12)

We could easily solve this, but because some of the richest people in the world cant stand losing even a tiny bit of that we'll instead chose a humanitarian disaster.

All good points, but are you in favour of the USA taking its share too? It has the world's biggest GDP and hosts some of the world's richest people.

At this point i do believe the only thing the west can do if we want a quick end to this is to throw the bone to Putin. Its probably not a good solution but he is probably the only one that have the power to end the civil war at this point.



And its on the neighbouring countries that the west should focus. If we therew all the money that we pay for a small % of refugees that make it to europe then the neighbouring countries would have the monetary means to better handle the situation. Our politicians wouldnt be able to bask in their own humanitarian goodness though.


Throw moneys at the camps. My assumption is that a very large majority actually wants to return to their country. If the camps had the monetary means to provide education and safer living conditions then maybe the people there actually can return at some point and make the country they are fleeing from a better place.


Its not that we cant its that its extremelly inefficiant. For every refugee that europe take on we can help about 100 in the neighbouring areas.

Also that article is somewhat funny in that it assumes on very shaky grounds that accepting refugees is a positive in the long run. That assumption is wholly based on the refugees quickly getting work and in Sweden where i live that takes on average 8 years. That number will only go up or we will create a whole new underclass because in Sweden the so called easy jobs are already heavily declining and to get any other job you need a good education.


Im not so sure that its "easy" to solve but yeah there is alot of money in the west that could be spent alot better. The big problem is that politicians wants to be reelected and therefor must show how good they are(or how tough they are not taking in refugees). Its easier to let 10000 die in Syria than to say no to 10 refugees wanting to enter your country. One of those can cost you the job while the other one can be blamed on someone else.

Putin is in charge and he is ending the civil war by killing off the western supported rebels in their main city Aleppo.

Thats exactly my point. In the short term Putin is the one that decides in what direction Syria goes. If the west wants the war to go towards a more peaceful resolution they need to convince Putin that a peaceful way is the most profitable to him.

As i said its probably not a great idea to climb into bed with Putin but when looking at whats happening in Syria and the surrounding areas i do believe it to be the best "bad" alternative.

this kinda misses the point that it's not so much about money as it is about they pure numbers being overwhelming. the economic side of things is mostly being paid by the un/donors anyway.

accepting refugees here is by far the most efficient way to help. it's not even in the universe. instead of having people sit in war zones or refugees camp wasting away for 25 years we can actually provided them with economic opportunities, freedom, safety and human rights.

there's a cost, but the economic opportunities means that they can mostly pay for themselves via income and taxes on those working. the cost/benefit ratio in pure economic terms is probably something like 10:1 for the first generation and far higher for any following one.

it creates massive value when poor, struggling people move to better functioning countries. it doesnt when they waste their lives away in camps where they cant work and the education will never be worth much.

the solution would have been to resettle every willing syrian into europe (or anywhere else in the developed world) years ago. it's what should have been done. it's shameful that it hasnt happened.

It's way more than 0.something. But what would you know with your head stuck up your arse. What about the people coming here? A lot of them are from Somalia, Afghanistan and other countries that dont need the support. Focus the help in the neighbouring countries like Turkey (they even claim they can't help because they are running out of resources).

How much do you know about politics in Sweden and the current situation? It's chaos over here and it's because we have politicians with the same thinking as you. "Let's transport everyone over here and save the whole world" - while the local population sees the public treasury excavates and health care, infrastructure, school and the legal system gets worse every day. We have social offices that are running on their knees because they can't handle all the refugees coming here. We can't provide housing, schools and health care. Thats more than giving up some $$$$.