Suggest Good Reading - Page 2 - Politics and Economics

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12-21-2007 , 03:55 PM

#26

NeBlis

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Quote:

Originally Posted by valenzuela

Im too lazy to write the post myself, I want zaster to do it, once zaster does it and some libertarians reply thats the part I get in the mix.
(I want X to be done but I want someone else to do X, i know, i know)

COMIE FREERIDER IMO

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12-21-2007 , 03:58 PM

#27

valenzuela

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Quote:

Originally Posted by NeBlis

COMIE FREERIDER IMO

ldo

12-21-2007 , 06:53 PM

#28

tame_deuces

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An on the side recommendation is The Ciano Diaries/Ciano. I'd call it a very advanced book because you probably need to be able to put your opinions aside and read it for what it is, while at the same time keep both an open and a closed mind.

It is written by Gian Galeazzo Ciano, Italian foreign minister until 1943 when he was executed by the Germans. His diary is written during the war, no hindsight - and when if you can manage to get by the fact that he was indeed a convinced fascist you will come to realize that politically he is a truly an exceptional mind, maybe those two sound contradictory but maybe the important message in this book is that things are not always straightforward.

It is hard to explain what I mean - I am not endorsing fascist views, but they are not really what he writes about in his book either - you get an extraordinary look into the mechanisms of diplomacy and wartime politics and some very sharp reflections on the personalities of WW2 written there and then, from what any knowledgable reader will soon discover is an incredibly alert mind. It easily stands as one of the best books I have ever read, and an eyeopener on politics in general.

12-21-2007 , 07:10 PM

#29

Dane S

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Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 4,802

Foucault has some good stuff that relates to a lot of what gets discussed here. My favorite is a collection called "Power". He does a lot of tracing the evolution of the state and its institutions through history. Sometimes he will give you a headache though.. style is pretty overblown.

12-21-2007 , 07:30 PM

#30

Barcalounger

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Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,456

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thug Bubbles

My sister and I decided it would be good to pick a couple books and swap. She's a Socialist (a believer in Democratic Socialism) and I'm something else, leaning towards Libertarian. I figured it would be a good idea to start a thread where people could recommend good books on various political and economic schools of thought. It would also be cool if you could classify the book as introductory, moderate or advanced, or some such. I'm personally looking for good starter books on the subject it discusses, and then work my way towards more advanced works.

Haven't read it, but am buying it next paycheck: The Machinery of Freedom looks to be an interesting exposition on ACism.

Are you only looking for strictly Libertarian books? If not, I enjoy the democratic (small d) stylings of Thom Hartmann in particular "What Would Jefferson Do?" He doesn't follow a strict economics dogma like most in this forum, but he does make some intelligent arguments for smaller and more localized government.

Last edited by Barcalounger; 12-21-2007 at 07:49 PM.

12-22-2007 , 01:18 AM

#31

zasterguava

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Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,414

Quote:

Originally Posted by valenzuela

lets make an official rothbard thread where zaster can make his criticisms( I have plenty as well)

Naaa, I really can't motivate myself, he's too insignificant and irrelevant at the moment.

12-24-2007 , 12:34 AM

#32

drzen

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Quote:

Originally Posted by skeptix

I also think if you're gonna get into it for real, you should start with a foundation. Pretty much any book on formal logic and/or logical fallacies should get you thinking critically. Then I'd add some Socrates/Plato philosophy, especially The Republic.

God no. You are liable to be completely confused about politics with this grounding.

Quote:

Mix in some Sartre/Camus, maybe some Thoreau. I'd finish it off with some Eastern Zen, focusing on Taoism.

LOL @ Ron Paul supporter advocating Taoism.

Quote:

If you can do all that, I think you'll bring a much greater objectivity to the table and you'll be able to decipher the true content of a writer, without buying into their various logical fallacies.

I think you will definitely have a different viewpoint.

But smoking a few bongs will probably be a quicker and easier way to arrive at the same point.

Quote:

Whatever you do, don't read Descartes or Nietzsche. That **** is a waste of time. Descartes will actually get you thinking backwards.

Reading Descartes is essential for anyone who wants to understand modern philosophy.

12-24-2007 , 12:46 AM

#33

drzen

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Misfire

I think the embrace of socialism comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of economic principles.

I think it comes more from a desire not to allow what some consider "principles", which are not in fact axiomatic, to rule the lives of those who are not well served by them, simply because it benefits some others to have it that way.

Quote:

For starters I'd recommend:

Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell

LOL. Read that chit and you'll never be able to think straight on economics or anything else again.

If you want to learn economics, start with something a bit less gungho for free trade.

Quote:

Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt

LOLOLOLOLOL.

Free trade = a great idea for people who already have capital; ****ing awful for anyone who doesn't, because an imbalance of economic power, if significant, leads some to become masters, others to become slaves, not all to become equals. So much for libertarianism. That's pretty much all you need to know about it. It's not politics; it's religion for the wealthy. Which is why it's so popular in the States.

Quote:

Sowell even shows how even Marx and Lennin understood economics much better than most socialists/communists today.

See the previous paragraph. It's not that economics doesn't work. It's that your economics works one way, mine another. Marx wasn't writing paeans to the market, dude.

12-24-2007 , 04:03 AM

#34

bxb

adept

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 820

I recently started The Republic since it was discussed in this thread. So far it is pretty bad. Many of his arguments are complete non sequiturs.

12-24-2007 , 03:23 PM

#35

captZEEbo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by drzen

Free trade = a great idea for people who already have capital; ****ing awful for anyone who doesn't, because an imbalance of economic power, if significant, leads some to become masters, others to become slaves, not all to become equals. So much for libertarianism. That's pretty much all you need to know about it. It's not politics; it's religion for the wealthy. Which is why it's so popular in the States.

..as opposed to the current system of 100% slaves of people that are not in the office. I guess you advocate communism? lol

12-24-2007 , 06:47 PM

#36

ianlippert

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Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,960

Quote:

Originally Posted by drzen

Free trade = a great idea for people who already have capital

So pretty much everyone who isnt dead? Great I'm glad we agree!

12-24-2007 , 06:53 PM

#37

TheQuietAnarchist

Formerly xorbie

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 22,826

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianlippert

So pretty much everyone who isnt dead? Great I'm glad we agree!

Yes, this is exactly what he meant.

12-25-2007 , 02:04 PM

#38

Misfire

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Quote:

Originally Posted by drzen

Socialists differ how?

12-25-2007 , 03:35 PM

#39

BigLawMonies

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I don't know how this has not been mentioned yet, but two moderately advanced but very readable books that are academic standards now on the social democracy v. libertarianism:

A Theory of Justice by John Rawls and

Anarchy, State, and Utopia by Robert Nozick

12-25-2007 , 04:18 PM

#40

BigLawMonies

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A Theory of Justice also pretty much demolishes economic equality as an end in itself. The takedown is pretty awesome IMO and I'm surprised that its refutation of equality has not spread.

12-25-2007 , 09:18 PM

#41

Thug Bubbles

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,183

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barcalounger

I'm looking for any and all books that are 'good'. But i'm going to be giving libertarian books to my sis, but I'd specifically like some decent books on socialist theory as well as any others.

12-25-2007 , 09:46 PM

#42

The Don

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Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 3,362

Human Action by Ludwig von Mises is by far the most logical explaination for why things are the way they are in human society that I have ever read. Highly recommended.

12-26-2007 , 02:34 AM

#43

zasterguava

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Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,414

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thug Bubbles

I'm looking for any and all books that are 'good'. But i'm going to be giving libertarian books to my sis, but I'd specifically like some decent books on socialist theory as well as any others.

as i said get bakunin's god and state for yourself, then give it to your sis. = killing 2 birds with one stone. Bakunin penned the following phrase, stateless socialism= anarchism and thus argues for socialism and a stateless society calling himself a libertarian socialist.

Oscar wIlde's soul of man under socialism is a great essay for a more utopian perspective on socialism.

12-26-2007 , 04:20 AM

#44

captZEEbo

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a really logical formation of libertarianism that I've found is
For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto by Murray N. Rothbard

pdf: http://www.mises.org/rothbard/newliberty.asp
ipod version: http://www.mises.org/media.aspx?action=category&ID=87

12-26-2007 , 04:53 AM

#45

bxb

adept

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 820

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don

Human Action by Ludwig von Mises is by far the most logical explaination for why things are the way they are in human society that I have ever read. Highly recommended.

Here it is in pdf form.

12-26-2007 , 09:07 PM

#46

zer0

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,835

so i was at borders today to spend a gift card, but didnt go prepared. i ended up picking up a couple poker books, but still have some left over...

has anybody read "freedomnomics", which, from the best i can tell, is the author's response to freakanomics? seemed pretty good and something that people in this forum would read.