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Stephen Colbert and Farm Workers: "Take our jobs" Stephen Colbert and Farm Workers: "Take our jobs"

07-01-2010 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regret$
So you would rather just pay more taxes so that this person doesn't rob people instead of collect welfare and food stamps?

You guys really don't get it. There are literally more people who are willing to move here than there are jobs.
There are infinite jobs. There is a finite number of people. You are wrong.
07-01-2010 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regret$
So you would rather just pay more taxes so that this person doesn't rob people instead of collect welfare and food stamps?

You guys really don't get it. There are literally more people who are willing to move here than there are jobs.
Who doesn't get what? Even ignoring tom's post about infinite jobs, if people keep coming here after there literally no more jobs, what happens?
07-01-2010 , 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
You guys know that the hypothetical $9 an hour being saved by hiring illegals doesn't just disappear, right? It goes into lower prices for American consumers and higher profits for American businesses.
"Sir, I'm offering you a job for $10/hr, and cost of living will put your expenses aaaat...abooout.... $15,000/yr."

"THAT'S OUTRAGEOUS! How am I supposed to live on that? I can't work for that wage."

"Ok sir, calm down. I can offer you $15/hr, with adjusted yearly expenses of around $25,500/yr."


"SOLD!"
07-01-2010 , 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Wat. One unemployed drywaller's standard of living goes down, yes.
The standard of living of all drywallers goes down. (Except the illegals' of course. Theirs goes up.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Even ignoring tom's post about infinite jobs, if people keep coming here after there literally no more jobs, what happens?
Supply-and-demand forces wages down even further.
07-01-2010 , 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdemaine
What gives you the right to stop them other than a gun? Forcefully impoverishing others to maintain your own unnaturally high standard of living seems pretty immoral to me.
Maybe, but every single person that lives in a 1st world country does exactly that. There aren't that many people born fortunate that give it all away and grind it out the hard way (St. Francis of Assisi and the girl from Coctail are the only 2 i can think of right now)
07-01-2010 , 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regret$
So you would rather just pay more taxes so that this person doesn't rob people instead of collect welfare and food stamps?

You guys really don't get it. There are literally more people who are willing to move here than there are jobs.
Wait, what?

1) They are moving here for the jobs that are currently unfilled

2) People moving here creates more jobs as those immigrants purchase goods and services

3) Someone making $4/hr is going to be on food stamps anyway.
07-01-2010 , 04:46 PM
The people who have been federally mandated to be paid above a certain amount:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regret$
collect welfare and food stamps
07-01-2010 , 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concerto
The standard of living of all drywallers goes down. (Except the illegals' of course. Theirs goes up.)
OK. The standard of living of all homeowners goes up. Also, all apartment dwellers are better off, too, as their rent will probably be a little cheaper if apartment buildings are cheaper to produce. Fun game we have here!
07-01-2010 , 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTeeMe
Maybe, but every single person that lives in a 1st world country does exactly that. There aren't that many people born fortunate that give it all away and grind it out the hard way (St. Francis of Assisi and the girl from Coctail are the only 2 i can think of right now)
Right but winning the lottery and then not giving away your winnings is different to winning the lottery then shooting anyone else that tries to play on the grounds that you want to be the only millionaire.
07-01-2010 , 04:48 PM
Regrets,

Illegals can't get welfare. Try again.
07-01-2010 , 04:49 PM
Wookie- He's saying the American put out of work by the illegal goes on welfare. He doesn't understand my point about people making $4/hr.

Regrets- For one thing, you're arguing against the minimum wage, not illegal immigration. For another, if we solved this problem and gave the American the $4/hr job, he'd still be on food stamps because $4/hr fulltime is below the poverty level.
07-01-2010 , 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regret$
The people who have been federally mandated to be paid above a certain amount:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Regrets,

Illegals can't get welfare. Try again.
???
07-01-2010 , 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
Wait, what?

1) They are moving here for the jobs that are currently unfilled

2) People moving here creates more jobs as those immigrants purchase goods and services.
Unfilled? I was drywalling yesterday making $15 an hour. Now you moved here and are doing it for $5 an hour. I'm worse off.

I'm guessing the guy making $15/hr purchases more goods and services than the guy making $5/hr that sends all his money back to his family in Mexico.
07-01-2010 , 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
Wookie- He's saying the American put out of work by the illegal goes on welfare. He doesn't understand my point about people making $4/hr.
I do understand your point. The economics are that if you have one person for every job with a floating wage the wage will literally never be lower than what it takes for someone to feed themselves, because they would starve and not show up to work the next day.
07-01-2010 , 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
OK. The standard of living of all homeowners goes up. Also, all apartment dwellers are better off, too, as their rent will probably be a little cheaper if apartment buildings are cheaper to produce. Fun game we have here!
So if you're both an unemployed drywaller and a home owner, you can get your drywall done cheaper by hiring the illegal alien who displaced you from your previous job. Great point.
07-01-2010 , 04:53 PM
Regrets,

OK, I misread you. Still, the issue then isn't immigration, but the minimum wage.

JTM,

Yeah, you do make less money due to immigrants. You can try to compete on quality of construction, though, and at least the price of your fruits and vegetables will keep dropping.
07-01-2010 , 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTeeMe
Unfilled? I was drywalling yesterday making $15 an hour. Now you moved here and are doing it for $5 an hour. I'm worse off.

I'm guessing the guy making $15/hr purchases more goods and services than the guy making $5/hr that sends all his money back to his family in Mexico.
Remember when I was like "the $9/hr doesn't just disappear"? It still doesn't just disappear.
07-01-2010 , 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concerto
So if you're both an unemployed drywaller and a home owner, you can get your drywall done cheaper by hiring the illegal alien who displaced you from your previous job. Great point.
Why do you insist on artificially depressing the standard of living of all the homeowners and apartment dwellers when all they want to do is hire someone cheaper to do the job?
07-01-2010 , 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Why do you insist on artificially depressing the standard of living of all the homeowners and apartment dwellers when all they want to do is hire someone cheaper to do the job?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regret$
There are literally more people who are willing to move here than there are jobs.
.
07-01-2010 , 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regret$
.
Regrets,

I have a pile of dirty dishes in my sink that I'd love to hire someone to clean for me. I also just finished a wash but it was a total hassle and I'd much rather have hired someone to wash and dry my clothes for me and fold and put them away. I'd also like to hire someone to cook food for me though not every day as I enjoy cooking sometimes. That's three jobs right there that I want to hire people for, I'm just one person and that took me about 60 seconds to come up with. Given time I could probably think of 100 things I'd like to hire someone to do for me.
07-01-2010 , 05:05 PM
Assuming you are employed by someone, I'm sure your employer would love to hire an illegal for less than minimum wage also. I'm not talking about restricting the total demand market for labor, I am talking about regulating it so that it is evaluated constantly and the number of visas are increased appropriately. If next year there is a huge demand for household help, awesome, let people from outside the country fill the gaps in demand.
07-01-2010 , 05:08 PM
Why does this person need to be an illegal to want a job at less than min wage? I want to hire local kids to do tedious stuff for my game store. Instead I don't get to do that and I have to do it all myself instead of paying them $5/hr. What kid wouldn't love to get $5/hr to hang out in their favorite game store?
07-01-2010 , 05:09 PM
Regrets,

At the same time, if all the work an immigrant can find is doing Tom's dishes and folding his laundry for a couple hours a day at way less than minimum wage, why would any more keep coming? Why wouldn't some of them even consider going back home to find a job?
07-01-2010 , 05:10 PM
If this thread is anything like what the AZ immigration thread was like I'm really glad I skipped it.
07-01-2010 , 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regret$
Assuming you are employed by someone, I'm sure your employer would love to hire an illegal for less than minimum wage also. I'm not talking about restricting the total demand market for labor, I am talking about regulating it so that it is evaluated constantly and the number of visas are increased appropriately. If next year there is a huge demand for household help, awesome, let people from outside the country fill the gaps in demand.
If I had an employer and they could find someone as productive as me willing to work for less then it would be up to me to work to become more productive or to accept a lower standard of living. Currently in the job I'm in I compete daily potentially with everyone in the world. I'm glad that I've worked hard (and gotten lucky) to the point that I'm currently more productive than they are.

      
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