Stephen Colbert and Farm Workers: "Take our jobs" - Page 5 - Politics and Economics

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Stephen Colbert and Farm Workers: "Take our jobs"

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07-01-2010 , 04:44 PM

#101

tomdemaine

Just tries harder

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,056

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regret$

So you would rather just pay more taxes so that this person doesn't rob people instead of collect welfare and food stamps?

You guys really don't get it. There are literally more people who are willing to move here than there are jobs.

There are infinite jobs. There is a finite number of people. You are wrong.

07-01-2010 , 04:44 PM

#102

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regret$

Who doesn't get what? Even ignoring tom's post about infinite jobs, if people keep coming here after there literally no more jobs, what happens?

07-01-2010 , 04:45 PM

#103

Ineedaride2

Politics Court Jester

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 25,080

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

You guys know that the hypothetical $9 an hour being saved by hiring illegals doesn't just disappear, right? It goes into lower prices for American consumers and higher profits for American businesses.

"Sir, I'm offering you a job for $10/hr, and cost of living will put your expenses aaaat...abooout.... $15,000/yr."

"THAT'S OUTRAGEOUS! How am I supposed to live on that? I can't work for that wage."

"Ok sir, calm down. I can offer you $15/hr, with adjusted yearly expenses of around $25,500/yr."

"SOLD!"

07-01-2010 , 04:45 PM

#104

Concerto

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,564

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Wat. One unemployed drywaller's standard of living goes down, yes.

The standard of living of all drywallers goes down. (Except the illegals' of course. Theirs goes up.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Even ignoring tom's post about infinite jobs, if people keep coming here after there literally no more jobs, what happens?

Supply-and-demand forces wages down even further.

07-01-2010 , 04:46 PM

#105

JayTeeMe

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 29,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomdemaine

What gives you the right to stop them other than a gun? Forcefully impoverishing others to maintain your own unnaturally high standard of living seems pretty immoral to me.

Maybe, but every single person that lives in a 1st world country does exactly that. There aren't that many people born fortunate that give it all away and grind it out the hard way (St. Francis of Assisi and the girl from Coctail are the only 2 i can think of right now)

07-01-2010 , 04:46 PM

#106

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,090

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regret$

Wait, what?

1) They are moving here for the jobs that are currently unfilled

2) People moving here creates more jobs as those immigrants purchase goods and services

3) Someone making $4/hr is going to be on food stamps anyway.

07-01-2010 , 04:46 PM

#107

Regret$

burnt out

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 12,124

The people who have been federally mandated to be paid above a certain amount:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regret$

collect welfare and food stamps

07-01-2010 , 04:47 PM

#108

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by Concerto

The standard of living of all drywallers goes down. (Except the illegals' of course. Theirs goes up.)

OK. The standard of living of all homeowners goes up. Also, all apartment dwellers are better off, too, as their rent will probably be a little cheaper if apartment buildings are cheaper to produce. Fun game we have here!

07-01-2010 , 04:47 PM

#109

tomdemaine

Just tries harder

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,056

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayTeeMe

Right but winning the lottery and then not giving away your winnings is different to winning the lottery then shooting anyone else that tries to play on the grounds that you want to be the only millionaire.

07-01-2010 , 04:48 PM

#110

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Regrets,

Illegals can't get welfare. Try again.

07-01-2010 , 04:49 PM

#111

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,090

Wookie- He's saying the American put out of work by the illegal goes on welfare. He doesn't understand my point about people making $4/hr.

Regrets- For one thing, you're arguing against the minimum wage, not illegal immigration. For another, if we solved this problem and gave the American the $4/hr job, he'd still be on food stamps because $4/hr fulltime is below the poverty level.

07-01-2010 , 04:49 PM

#112

Regret$

burnt out

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 12,124

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regret$

The people who have been federally mandated to be paid above a certain amount:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Regrets,

Illegals can't get welfare. Try again.

???

07-01-2010 , 04:50 PM

#113

JayTeeMe

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 29,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

Wait, what?

1) They are moving here for the jobs that are currently unfilled

2) People moving here creates more jobs as those immigrants purchase goods and services.

Unfilled? I was drywalling yesterday making $15 an hour. Now you moved here and are doing it for $5 an hour. I'm worse off.

I'm guessing the guy making $15/hr purchases more goods and services than the guy making $5/hr that sends all his money back to his family in Mexico.

07-01-2010 , 04:51 PM

#114

Regret$

burnt out

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 12,124

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

Wookie- He's saying the American put out of work by the illegal goes on welfare. He doesn't understand my point about people making $4/hr.

I do understand your point. The economics are that if you have one person for every job with a floating wage the wage will literally never be lower than what it takes for someone to feed themselves, because they would starve and not show up to work the next day.

07-01-2010 , 04:52 PM

#115

Concerto

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,564

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

So if you're both an unemployed drywaller and a home owner, you can get your drywall done cheaper by hiring the illegal alien who displaced you from your previous job. Great point.

07-01-2010 , 04:53 PM

#116

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Regrets,

OK, I misread you. Still, the issue then isn't immigration, but the minimum wage.

JTM,

Yeah, you do make less money due to immigrants. You can try to compete on quality of construction, though, and at least the price of your fruits and vegetables will keep dropping.

07-01-2010 , 04:54 PM

#117

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,090

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayTeeMe

Remember when I was like "the $9/hr doesn't just disappear"? It still doesn't just disappear.

07-01-2010 , 04:55 PM

#118

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by Concerto

So if you're both an unemployed drywaller and a home owner, you can get your drywall done cheaper by hiring the illegal alien who displaced you from your previous job. Great point.

Why do you insist on artificially depressing the standard of living of all the homeowners and apartment dwellers when all they want to do is hire someone cheaper to do the job?

07-01-2010 , 04:57 PM

#119

Regret$

burnt out

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 12,124

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Why do you insist on artificially depressing the standard of living of all the homeowners and apartment dwellers when all they want to do is hire someone cheaper to do the job?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regret$

There are literally more people who are willing to move here than there are jobs.

07-01-2010 , 05:01 PM

#120

tomdemaine

Just tries harder

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,056

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regret$

Regrets,

I have a pile of dirty dishes in my sink that I'd love to hire someone to clean for me. I also just finished a wash but it was a total hassle and I'd much rather have hired someone to wash and dry my clothes for me and fold and put them away. I'd also like to hire someone to cook food for me though not every day as I enjoy cooking sometimes. That's three jobs right there that I want to hire people for, I'm just one person and that took me about 60 seconds to come up with. Given time I could probably think of 100 things I'd like to hire someone to do for me.

07-01-2010 , 05:05 PM

#121

Regret$

burnt out

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 12,124

Assuming you are employed by someone, I'm sure your employer would love to hire an illegal for less than minimum wage also. I'm not talking about restricting the total demand market for labor, I am talking about regulating it so that it is evaluated constantly and the number of visas are increased appropriately. If next year there is a huge demand for household help, awesome, let people from outside the country fill the gaps in demand.

07-01-2010 , 05:08 PM

#122

TomVeil

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,374

Why does this person need to be an illegal to want a job at less than min wage? I want to hire local kids to do tedious stuff for my game store. Instead I don't get to do that and I have to do it all myself instead of paying them $5/hr. What kid wouldn't love to get $5/hr to hang out in their favorite game store?

07-01-2010 , 05:09 PM

#123

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Regrets,

At the same time, if all the work an immigrant can find is doing Tom's dishes and folding his laundry for a couple hours a day at way less than minimum wage, why would any more keep coming? Why wouldn't some of them even consider going back home to find a job?

07-01-2010 , 05:10 PM

#124

SL__72

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 16,499

If this thread is anything like what the AZ immigration thread was like I'm really glad I skipped it.

07-01-2010 , 05:10 PM

#125

tomdemaine

Just tries harder

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,056

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regret$

If I had an employer and they could find someone as productive as me willing to work for less then it would be up to me to work to become more productive or to accept a lower standard of living. Currently in the job I'm in I compete daily potentially with everyone in the world. I'm glad that I've worked hard (and gotten lucky) to the point that I'm currently more productive than they are.

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