No group <100 had enough money or credit to build them

I think it's ridiculous to say that ACists would ever collectively own something so valuable that if one of their children would try to opt out they would exile him for not paying the associated tax.

So why don't they want to collect tolls in order to recoup the cost of the investment?

"if you live on this land, you have to pay for the roads this land uses. If not, you can move. That's the way it is".



Can someone still agree to sell the new member land? Even if he doesn't pay for the collectively owned road?

Huh? If the owners of the roads aren't willing to collect the tolls how can he pay them?

If a road could be funded through coercion, it could be funded under a free market. If no one were willing to take on the risk, what makes you think having roads is a profitable/"correct" move?

Enforcing the toll on the 1 person who is trying to steal is too expensive.

Well if everyone agrees with this then sure. Any land that was sold to him would stipulate that he had to pay the road fee.

Knock on their door and say I used your road here is the money. They are not unwilling to collect, just unable.

You can't coercively force people to pay for the road even if they don't use it.

How can he be stealing if they aren't collecting any tolls?

Why are they unable to collect the tolls?

These are the property rules regulating the use of scarce resources:

1. Every person is the exclusive owner of its own physical body.

2. We acquire property in things (the right to exclusively control) that were previously unowned by being the first one who makes some visible use of these things (original appropriation/homesteading).

3. Whatever I produce with the help of my physical body plus those things that I originally appropriated, also becomes mine.

4. I have then as the owner of something the right to transfer those things that I own to somebody else, voluntarily.


Based on this there are a couple of things to say about 'facts' you stated about the island. Do you see them?

You can steal my car just because I don't collect tolls on it?

What in the world are you talking about?

Too expensive. I can go to the grocery store right now and eat 1 grape for free also.

Sounds like the people building the roads made a pretty crappy investment.

Sure. He would just no longer "legally" have access to the roads, or whatever other parts of society were collectively owned. He is effectively excluded from that part of society.

Question: If this person was sold land, but didn't pay for any of the taxation based stuff that the rest of the island paid for, do you think he would still benefit from the taxation based stuff? Such as island defense, or sea ports, or roads for transportation to help trade and to build up the island. I think the answer to this is clearly yes. If the answer is yes, do the islanders now have an incentive to NOT sell land to people like this?

If I own property and use it but don't collect tolls on its use how have I abandoned it?

Possibly, but the guy is still stealing

Why don't you lock your car? Do you keep the keys in it?

Well then it's up to the citizens of the island to punish him for it.

I don't think you're getting my point. It was originally funded under a free market, that was the whole idea. The people living on this island banded together and agreed that it would benefit them all if they put their resources together and built this thing.

The problem arises when you get new members of the society wanting to live in it without contributing to the costs of upkeep. Even if they get someone to sell them a piece of land to live on "outside" the society of the island, they are still greatly benefiting from everyone else, directly or indirectly. Therefore the other remaining members of society have a HUGE incentive to not allow this.

Re: Freeloaders

If somebody is benefiting from, say, "island defense" without paying for it, but he's not harming anybody else (physically, economically, or otherwise) by doing so, what is the big deal?

The price of the road would be in the cost of the good, so he doesn't have to pay separately for the roads. Like the price of a fruit is dependent on the price of gas even though you are not directly buying gas.