Amazingly, the chiefsplanet version of this thread is somehow even worse. You guys have work to do.

To be clear, this case is hopeless on the 'this was really protected speech that the OU Student Code of Conduct violated, when enforced' track.

Obviously I'm not an expert on standing so maybe there's like some such about how wherever the bus was or whatever the event was didn't count as a school function and the school can't enforce the Code of Conduct there. But based on what I know that sounds hopeless too.

It's a court's responsibility to uphold an individual's rights regardless of how ****ty it is. SCOTUS ruled 8-1 that the Westboro Baptist church was well within their rights to hold their signs up and use their vitriolic language. The only time courts have ruled against language if there was if their was a possibility for people to be physically harmed. The court of public opinion has no influence on their decision. If this ever reached SCOTUS, can't see these kids not winning.


You seem to think a Code of Conduct matters. It doesn't. You can't violate someone's constitutional rights just because it is in some "Code of Conduct".

Attending OU is not a Constitutional right. Maybe that's informing your hopeless idiocy here? Check the Constitution brah, not in there.

Westboro Baptist would be snap thrown off campus if they tried any of their usual stuff, so I don't see how that decision is relevant.

It's been a few years since I was in the federal service, but I'm pretty sure they fire you for singing about lynching ******s.

GUSJohnsonGoat thinks the 28th Amendment to the Constitution is the right to sing Boomer Sooner and attend classes in Stillwater if any America so chooses or something so bear in mind his prattling on about Westboro is borne out of not knowing anything about the Constitution, law, the US, history, etc.

every fraternity at georgia tech that was "cool" was all white in 1997-2001. That's my bigger issue with this SAE/OU thing. This problem is a lot bigger than just them. Other frats might not have songs or be dumb enough to put them on camera. but the segregation part exists EVERYWHERE in the south.

Would love to hear from other frat dudes ITT about what their schools were like.

When I was in grad school at UT-Knoxville, a frat dressed up in blackface, so it was kind of desegregated.

Lol @ thinking the constitutional protections surrounding political speech are even close to the protections granted to ****faced kids singing about lynching blacks.

Your reading comprehensive is really poor. Probably should read the articles I posted about the 1st Amendment applying to public universities.


Even if they are "snap thrown off", the school would most likely be violating their rights. The point is that public universities have to abide by 1st Amendment rights and if the court is willing to protect a group that is far more incendiary, then these kids would probably be protected as well.

The question as always is where do you draw the line? All it was, was bigoted insensitive racist singing which is protected by the 1st Amendment. It's not like they were actually plotting a lynching. What other legal speech shouldn't be allowed by people in their privacy at a public university? Keep in mind that they did this in private, they weren't disrupting a class. The first thing that comes to my mind is what if they were singing a song promoting rape? What about making fun of 9/11?

I also question whether the time fits the crime. They should have lost their house and charter for sure. I don't think that's a slap on the wrist like some people do. Maybe the school should have made them take African American Studies 101 or something like that. They're kind of still kids who have a lot of growing up to do and they might come from an area where there's not a lot of black people and it's seen as ok to make jokes about this stuff. Getting expelled is a big deal and it's going to be very hard for them to get a job.

Surprised to disagree with DVaut1 here, but I think this is a fairly easy win for the students. Eugene Volokh, who I would say is one of the world's most knowledgeable people about First Amendment issues, has written about this issue in the past. Here's his post on the SAE incident:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/v...racist-speech/

[QUOTE] What happened to everyone has problems/life is hard/let the market speak?

[QUOTE=LetsGambool;46330469] Well once again, this is the government picking winners and losers.

How so? Employers can feel free to employ whoever they wish

I wouldn't be shocked to see the Supreme Court treat a university campus as a limited public forum, where reasonable restrictions compatible with the educational mission of the school are permissible, so that a code of conduct banning racist speech/behavior would be constitutional.

Greatwhite, the way to punish these kids us to ridicule them and make it known they are racist, so they don't get a job. You should be upset for them getting kicked out, but you should be happy that people aren't going to employ these bigoted idiots.

wait a minute, they had a black guy before? i'm confused. So these guys were wrong in their chant and their fraternity isn't really racist, they're just studio-racists

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/10/us/okl...rss_topstories

I doubt it. Here's a summary (again, from Volokh, this time several years ago):

http://www.volokh.com/posts/1172536284.shtml

Excerpt:
[I am not a lawyer. Just follow First Amendment law for giggles.)

I didn't want to be the first person to say it here, because I've had the racist card thrown at me enough for not always siding with liberals, but I think this is probably correct. It's very dangerous for a public university to start telling students what legal speech they can use and what legal speech they can't use in their privacy. The First Amendment is in jeopardy here. We don't allow somethings, but it has to have a serious threat like yelling bomb or be pornographic in nature. So serious person would say that these kids were planning on lynching somebody.

Didn't realize previously banned poster and noted white supremacist GreatWhite would go hard in the paint against affirmative action

Well, in this thread at least.

Maybe the supposedly color-blind frats should try welcoming Blacks as much as the supposedly segregated Black frats welcome Whites.

Alpha Phi Alpha, the oldest Black Fraternity, has allowed non-Blacks since 1945.

This is some goofy frat stuff, but here's some recent induction ceremony that's like 1/2 white - hard to tell with the goofy masks.

I don't think they're hopeless and deserve to never get a job. I think they're young, dumb, need to mature, and learn. If they don't learn from this then yes, they're trash. I try to give people who say things the benefit of the doubt as human beings before writing them off. I hope this experience changes them for the better.