Ron Paul 2012 Containment Thread - Page 613 - Politics and Economics

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Ron Paul 2012 Containment Thread

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02-04-2012 , 02:39 PM

#15301

spino1i

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Quote:

Originally Posted by prana

Uhh he said his secretary pays more, not the avg. american iirc. This may be a factor.

so he cherry-picked someone who pays a lot in taxes because of her individual situation but then tried to suggest that she was the average middle class american. And theres nothing wrong with that?

02-04-2012 , 02:39 PM

#15302

spino1i

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Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

Under their philosophy I think it also explains why they were homeless at some point. Darwin in action, there.

I really have no idea what your implying Fly.

02-04-2012 , 02:42 PM

#15303

krmont22

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Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

Under their philosophy I think it also explains why they were homeless at some point. Darwin in action, there.

Yes. I was homeless, because I was lazy, reckless, and incredibly irresponsible. Being poor and homeless, I learned my lessons and worked extremely hard, saved my money, and improved myself. Now I am comfortably wealthy.

02-04-2012 , 02:42 PM

#15304

MrWookie

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Quote:

Originally Posted by spino1i

And whats wrong with this again?

Fly already answered that, although I'll fix his post slightly:

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

Now this guy looks pretty poor and he probably lives a life of unimaginable deprivation and misery. However, I believe that with your support we can overcome Democrat obstructionism and make his life significantly worse. Cain 2012.

02-04-2012 , 02:43 PM

#15305

krmont22

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Quote:

Originally Posted by spino1i

I really have no idea what your implying Fly.

He is confirming our point while trying to insult us.

02-04-2012 , 02:45 PM

#15306

spino1i

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Fly already answered that, although I'll fix his post slightly:

Yeh and how do we know this guy didn't put himself in this situation through his own poor choices? You don't get to be lazy and make poor choices and then get bailed out anyway. And if you really feel bad for people like this, there are always charities that will help them to some extent.

The poor people who deserve welfare are children born into poverty, not old people like this who had their chance in life and blew it.

02-04-2012 , 02:48 PM

#15307

MrWookie

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Quote:

Originally Posted by spino1i

Ergo, let's now punish him even more for his poor choices and make it even more difficult do like krmont did and pull himself out of poverty. How Libertarians Win Friends and Influence People with Their Thoughts on the Poor.

02-04-2012 , 02:48 PM

#15308

Huehuecoyotl

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spino1i with the soul read on the homeless guy. He doesn't deserve anything he's old and poor.

02-04-2012 , 02:48 PM

#15309

Max Raker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by spino1i

Yes, capital gains tax is taxed at 15%. Thats what Buffett paid. Its not any lower rate then regular salary/wage income as you eloquently pointed out with your link showing that the average american pays 14.3%. So Buffett is a clown as I said. He doesn't pay a lower rate.

Buffett was trying to erroneously suggest that the average american pays a higher income tax % then him, which isn't true.

The secretary works for for a year, gets 40k and pays 15% of that. Buffett works for a year, his net wealth often increases by 100s of millions and he only pays 15% of his realized gains, which is ~0% of his total wealth increase.

02-04-2012 , 02:49 PM

#15310

spino1i

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

How are we punishing this guy? Are we preventing him from finding some sort of a job? Do we have laws that say old homeless people can't work?

02-04-2012 , 02:51 PM

#15311

spino1i

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

spino1i with the soul read on the homeless guy. He doesn't deserve anything he's old and poor.

Well if you lived that long you've had your opportunity to save. Last time I checked we still had public schools, available to even the poorest of children. Everyone is given a chance. If you blow it and become a drug addict or have too many children that you can't afford, too bad.

Also this guy can't be that bad off, as he should be receiving social security checks every month.

02-04-2012 , 02:51 PM

#15312

MissileDog

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Quote:

Originally Posted by krmont22

I am fine with all taxes that are apportioned and/or indirect. Saying something is OK because it only affects a small % is not a good argument. You can't do something wrong just because it only affects a small amount of money or people. Everyone has rights, and the majority can not take those away from them. It is the entire basis of freedom and liberty.

Dude, I didn't say anything is OK, or not OK. I was just pointing out that most taxes, a vast, vast majority, are not civil forfeitures. That for most taxes, a vast, vast majority, you have access to the exact same due process as you would have access if accused of arson. And for those taxes, payroll taxes (including local, state, and federal income taxes), sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, import/export taxes, and all the rest (and leaving aside civil forfeitures)...

The wingnuts cannot call the collection of taxes "armed robbery", any more than they can call the collection of restitution from an arsonist "armed robbery".

That's my point. Do you agree?

02-04-2012 , 02:53 PM

#15313

spino1i

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Raker

And if he wants to use any of the net worth he will have to pay 15%. Unless he just likes staring at eleven digit dollar figures on his computer monitor.

02-04-2012 , 02:54 PM

#15314

krmont22

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It is hard to self sustain. That is the point. You have to work really hard, be smart, be responsible, and have a plan to make it out. If you just try to hand them money and expect that person to instantly change his entire perspective, personality, and work ethic, it simply will not work. They are still the same people they were before, but now they have some free stuff they will use unwisely.

If you want to help the poor, make less restrictions on hiring procedures. Stop taxing businesses so much. Stop making them provide health benefits. Actually allow them to hire the poor people without it bankrupting them.

02-04-2012 , 02:55 PM

#15315

krmont22

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MissileDog

The wingnuts cannot call the collection of taxes "armed robbery", any more than they can call the collection of restitution from an arsonist "armed robbery".

That's my point. Do you agree?

Some taxes are okay. Maybe even the vast majority. However, saying that certain taxes are allowed to break the fundamental laws, makes no sense. You can't have exceptions to rights. If there are exceptions, there are no rights at all.

I am calling seizure of property before court proceeding on federal income tax or any other reason armed robbery. I am not saying all taxes are armed robbery.

02-04-2012 , 02:55 PM

#15316

LVpokerPRO

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,930

Just got back from the caucus in Vegas...my area I was in had 4 precincts...our final tally was
Romney 11
Paul 7
Santorum 2
Gingrich 1

All 6 of our delegates were RP supporters...he was organized with young people in all the precincts I saw getting to be delegates.

Apparently the Paul/Romney camp is worried about fraud

http://www.examiner.com/conservative...evada-caucuses

02-04-2012 , 02:56 PM

#15317

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by spino1i

How are we punishing this guy? Are we preventing him from finding some sort of a job? Do we have laws that say old homeless people can't work?

Wait a minute, aren't you in the "taxes are theft" crowd? If taxes are theft, and sales taxes hurt the poor more, then we're stealing proportionately more from this guy by implementing sales taxes. And you think this is the optimal solution because this guy must have made some bad decisions along the way. That sounds a whole lot like punishment to me.

02-04-2012 , 02:56 PM

#15318

spino1i

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Quote:

Originally Posted by krmont22

Lowering the minimum wage significantly would help as well. At least that poor person can develop work ethic again instead of just sitting around in a cardboard box begging for money.

02-04-2012 , 02:57 PM

#15319

spino1i

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

im in the taxes are theft crowd if they get beyond a certain reasonable point. I am not an ACist. Mayo made a good point on me earlier and I acknowledge that.

02-04-2012 , 02:58 PM

#15320

Mayo

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You guys actually believe these things that you say?

02-04-2012 , 02:59 PM

#15321

Max Raker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by spino1i

And if he wants to use any of the net worth he will have to pay 15%. Unless he just likes staring at eleven digit dollar figures on his computer monitor.

That seems to be pretty much exactly what he likes doing. And I'm not sure how his mega donation to the Gates Foundation worked...but I think it is fair to say that Buffett has payed much less as a percentage of the total wealth he generated than the average american. Regardless with whether you agree with his position or not...I don't think he is a "clown" for making that statement.

02-04-2012 , 03:01 PM

#15322

MissileDog

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,581

And hai Ronulans!

If you ever wonder why people laugh at your "Austrian" non-sense... just consider the dismissal to incomprehension of the entire concept of marginal utility in the last 50 or so posts.

And if you ever wonder why the vast majority of humanity considers the libertarian "ideal" as hideously anti-human and abhorrent... just consider the virulent anti-poor folk bile in the last 50 or so posts.

Young white males, from privileged upper middle class backgrounds, who are basically highly functioning INTP-style "Rainmen", are never going to inherit the earth.

02-04-2012 , 03:02 PM

#15323

spino1i

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Raker

Well it looks like he is planning on spending all his money on charity. And no he won't be taxed for that, but do you really think he should? Do you think that its more important he pay money to the govt instead of to the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation?

I mean it sounds like your against the charity deduction on income tax. I mean thats really why Buffett isn't paying any taxes.