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Ron Paul 2012 Containment Thread Ron Paul 2012 Containment Thread

01-20-2012 , 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99
Seriously? Because one has been proven by science while the other specifically carves out a faith-based niche for itself that can neither be proven or dis-proven. Please show me some accepted scientific fact that Obama doesn't believe in.
That people can't live to 900 years old or come back to life after 3 days.
01-20-2012 , 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM
Because he doesn't CARE. It has little to no relevance to his or really anyone's life unless you're doing scientific research where it matters. Since he has no intention of ever doing that, the only value to him in the subject is education for education's sake, and while that's a wonderful thing, there's no reason to deride a man for not caring about one particular subject. Might as well mock people for not doing in depth research into nuclear physics.

If you can't hand build a nuclear bomb, no presidency for you!
Evolution is a pretty hot button topic in education and if the man is going to be in charge of overseeing a department dedicated to education then it is relevant. If you don't believe radioactivity is dangerous I don't want you in charge of nuclear missles.
01-20-2012 , 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
The Paul equivalent would be believing jesus flew into the sky because gravity is just a theory and and one argument against it that deserves consideration against it is "****ing planes....how do they work?" Like Paul's statements on evolution, it is not only wrong, but incredibly stupid.
But 900 year old men and talking snakes- not crazy at all.

We are talking about really crazy vs. really crazy + one other thing.
01-20-2012 , 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
Evolution is a pretty hot button topic in education and if the man is going to be in charge of overseeing a department dedicated to education then it is relevant.
He won't be overseeing it. DUCY?
01-20-2012 , 06:08 PM
That is not accepted scientific fact. Science by its nature cannot prove such a thing.
01-20-2012 , 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCollins
He won't be overseeing it. DUCY?
Because he won't be president so it wouldn't matter even if he could.
01-20-2012 , 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
Because he won't be president.
Even if he was, he wouldn't be overseeing it. DUCY?
01-20-2012 , 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCollins
But 900 year old men and talking snakes- not crazy at all.

We are talking about really crazy vs. really crazy + one other thing.
Did I say anything about 1 view being crazy and 1 not?
01-20-2012 , 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCollins
Even if he was, he wouldn't be overseeing it. DUCY?
Sure and its still relevant. DUCY?
01-20-2012 , 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCollins
That people can't live to 900 years old or come back to life after 3 days.
I think both of those things might be possible.
01-20-2012 , 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
I think both of those things might be possible.
But based on available evidence it is more likely that these things haven't happened then it is that evolution has.

Not sure why we are trying to compare the likeliness of faith-based beliefs though. Likeliness isn't part of the equation for believers.
01-20-2012 , 06:14 PM
Evolution has 100% happened
01-20-2012 , 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
I think both of those things might be possible.
In the future, past, or both? What about snakes talking? What about turning a rib into a woman? Or a boat big enough to be built 4000 years ago but contain every species of animal.
01-20-2012 , 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SL__72
Not sure why we are trying to compare the likeliness of faith-based beliefs.
I'm not. I'm talking about a person's statements about evolution that indicate the doesn't have a ****ing clue what it is.
01-20-2012 , 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungle survivor
Barack Obama
[x] believes in evolution
[x] Christian

Ron Paul
[ ] believes in evolution
[x] Christian
I'm 95% sure BO is a closet Atheist. Only reason he has to have a church is because it's impossible for an Atheist to win an election.
01-20-2012 , 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCollins
In the future, past, or both? What about snakes talking? What about turning a rib into a woman? Or a boat big enough to be built 4000 years ago but contain every species of animal.
I'm not even sure that time travel to the past is impossible...so I can't answer your first question. But none of this matters. If you find stuff obama has said about scientific subjects as dumb as the paul evolution quote i will certainly call him out on it and say i would be less likely to vote for him for a CEO position.
01-20-2012 , 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungle survivor
Explain again how saying evolution is a theory which he doesn't accept != he doesn't believe in evolution. I don't follow you on that point.
Because all of you are using the word "believe" incorrectly. He is saying that he doesn't "believe" in it, but you all interpret that as disbelief. You don't know what the word means. To not believe is a NEUTRAL position which ALL PEOPLE should have as their default when confronted with incomplete information.

The problem though is that you guys actually all do BELIEVE in evolution, meaning you have FAITH that it is real when you haven't done anything like sufficient research to form a logical conclusion. This makes you the same as Christians in my book.
01-20-2012 , 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Colbert
I'm 95% sure BO is a closet Atheist. Only reason he has to have a church is because it's impossible for an Atheist to win an election.
He was going to church long before he became a politician. Maybe it was all part of the plan...but that seems pretty amazing to me. At the very least he feels that churches have a positive impact on the community that he wanted to be a part of and more likely than not he believes (or believed) in some of their teachings. Tons of christians, and especially highly educated ones do not interpret many of the old testament stories that seem unlikely literally anyway.
01-20-2012 , 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
I'm not even sure that time travel to the past is impossible...so I can't answer your first question. But none of this matter. If you find stuff obama has said about scientific subjects as dumb as the paul evolution quote i will certainly call him out on it and say i would be less likely to vote for him for a CEO position.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barack Obama
I believe in the redemptive death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe that that faith gives me a path to be cleansed of sin and have eternal life.
.
01-20-2012 , 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM
Because all of you are using the word "believe" incorrectly. He is saying that he doesn't "believe" in it, but you all interpret that as disbelief. You don't know what the word means. To not believe is a NEUTRAL position which ALL PEOPLE should have as their default when confronted with incomplete information.

The problem though is that you guys actually all do BELIEVE in evolution, meaning you have FAITH that it is real when you haven't done anything like sufficient research to form a logical conclusion. This makes you the same as Christians in my book.
I didn't interpret it as some active disbelief the way you are saying.

I said he doesn't believe in evolution. You'll agree that he doesn't believe in evolution but when anyone says those same words you tell them they are wrong because you imagine "He doesn't believe in evolution" as "He actively hates the concept of evolution and is certain it is wrong" which is just nonsense on your part.
01-20-2012 , 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
If he doesn't care don't he shouldn't write about arguments against it in his book. I don't mock him for not knowing about SU(3) gauge theories in nuclear physics because, unlike evolution, it is probably much too hard for people like him to understand and he doesn't go around spewing ignorant things about it with 0 knowledge like he does with evolution. Something he chose to write about in his book.
Evolution is just as hard for most people to understand! You accept the end conclusion without understanding a damned thing about it and call it believing in it. It's absurd!

And what ignorant things has he spewed other than mangling the meaning of the word "theory", which 99% of Americans do, almost certainly including every other presidential candidate, even if they aren't on record as having done so?
01-20-2012 , 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
Evolution is a pretty hot button topic in education and if the man is going to be in charge of overseeing a department dedicated to education then it is relevant.
Not when he wants to end the federal government's involvement in education it's not. If he were crying for a federal mandate on teaching evolution in schools, then yeah, that would be pretty damned relevant. Otherwise, no.
01-20-2012 , 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackgck
Paul on evolution in his book Liberty Defined.

Quote:
My personal view is that recognizing the validity of an evolutionary process does not support atheism nor should it diminish one’s view about God and the universe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
I'm not. I'm talking about a person's statements about evolution that indicate the doesn't have a ****ing clue what it is.
Since it seems really important to you to fully understand Ron Paul's position on evolution, how do you square your interpretation of his beliefs with the above quote?
01-20-2012 , 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SL__72
My personal view is that recognizing the validity of an evolutionary process does not support atheism nor should it diminish one’s view about God and the universe.
Oops, he called it a valid process, and by the conclusion jumping we're using around here, you just proved that Ron Paul believes in evolution.
01-20-2012 , 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SL__72
Since it seems really important to you to fully understand Ron Paul's position on evolution, how do you square your interpretation of his beliefs with the above quote?
That quote does not show that he has any understanding of what evolution is. This quote, from the same book I think, indicates he doesn't understand it even at a very pop/young child level

Quote:
There is one argument against evolution that deserves consideration. If man is evolving and progressing, why is man's involvement in mass killings of one another getting worse and the struggle for peace more difficult? Government wars and exterminations in the twentieth century reached 262 million people killed by their own governments and 44 million people killed in wars. I fear that doesn't say much for the evolutionary process.
He is mixing up the scientific notion of evolution with the everyday usage of the word so he seems to have a very, very shallow understanding of the theory of evolution.

What's funny is, even ignoring the evolution part I still strongly disagree with that quote. It's likely humans killing humans (as a percentage of population) has very much been on a downward slope for a long time. He views modern society as sliding into awful chaos and I think we are perhaps just now emerging from it.

Last edited by Max Raker; 01-20-2012 at 06:36 PM.

      
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