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Ron Paul 2012 Containment Thread Ron Paul 2012 Containment Thread

10-20-2011 , 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
I haven't seen any graph showing he gets the least tv news mention. I think that is flat our false over the last month.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary_Tiger
From May 2nd to October 9th, Ron Paul has had the least news coverage of any candidate. Gingrich and Palin got almost four times as many stories, while Bachmann got five times, and Perry got eight times.



Source

RCP Average for April 15th to May 1st Polls

Romney 16%
Palin 11.25%
Gingrich 7.4%
Paul 7.2%
Bachmann 4%
Pawlenty 3.25%
Santorum 2%
Huntsman 1%
now you've seen it.

run and [ignore] THAT, homeboy.
10-20-2011 , 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99
Cars have positive utility value. Risks are weighed vs. utility. Pragmatism ftw.

I mean hey cars kill people, so why not give kids access to bazookas? Reducto ad absurdum is fun! Oh yeah, you're probably cool with that as well.
Internet gambling takes money out of American pockets and ships it overseas. No utility here, should probably ban it.

tannenj, Max does know about that graph, but that graph describes Paul's coverage in articles. There hasn't been a study of cable television news coverage because it's not so easy or cheap to do. I think a methodology would be take the 6pm-10pm block of television on CNN, MSNBC, and FNC, and see how often each candidate's name is said. I'm guessing Paul and Gingrich would do disproportionately bad relative to their national polling average, and Perry and Bachmann would do disproportionately well.

Last edited by Scary_Tiger; 10-20-2011 at 11:40 PM.
10-20-2011 , 11:46 PM
I can sympathize with and respect AC in this spot. I think RP has a very justified gripe with almost the entire media for his treatment, but I do not think AC can be lumped in. He has been, at worst, way more respectable and open to RP than his peers. At best, and more likely, he has been totally fair to RP.

This seems like a case of <whoever writes fundraising letters> screwing up. The sentiment is reasonable, but not when directed towards AC.
10-20-2011 , 11:54 PM
Anderson Cooper piece is a net positive for the campaign since it replayed some of Paul's answers. But yeah, campaign needs to realize this isn't 1988 anymore and your direct mail fundraising letters will get scrutinized in this day and age. They need to be more careful when writing in Ron Paul's name. I'm pretty sure he did go forty minutes without talking in the first hour of the Bloomberg debate and campaign should've backtracked to that instead of what they did. It was a little unfair in that six of the seven candidates got to answer the last question, so it's a little dishonest to act like the letter was just making stuff up with regard to closing statements.
10-20-2011 , 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary_Tiger
tannenj, Max does know about that graph, but that graph describes Paul's coverage in articles.
fwiw, i haven't even read the article. just remembered you'd posted it and decided to quote it.

max, do you think RP gets the least mention in articles?
10-20-2011 , 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sholar
If granting the premises, your conclusion doesn't follow, it's because you are not making a logical argument.


It's not enough to show that taxing the rich has a negative impact on the economy which also (negatively) impacts the non-rich. You claimed that it would be better to raise that revenue from the non-rich instead--better even for the non-rich. That's the part you haven't justified (and won't be able to justify).

I'm not a Keynesian. It's amusing that Ron Paul supporters think that everyone is either an Austrian or an Keynesian when, as it turns out, very few are either.
I didn't mention anything about tax revenues. I don't care how much tax money the government gets.

I was arguing that taxing the rich is the worst for our economy and for everyone as a whole, which is the only reason people are making a big gripe about taxes. They don't care if our government is properly funded. They just want more money for themselves. What they don't understand is that by taxing the rich, there will be less jobs for them and higher product prices, translating to much less money for them.
10-21-2011 , 12:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary_Tiger
Internet gambling takes money out of American pockets and ships it overseas. No utility here, should probably ban it.
This is pretty much the reason we got for them wanting to ban poker lol. At the same time they have no problem dumping hundreds of billions of dollars overseas in wars.
10-21-2011 , 12:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASPoker8
I can sympathize with and respect AC in this spot. I think RP has a very justified gripe with almost the entire media for his treatment, but I do not think AC can be lumped in. He has been, at worst, way more respectable and open to RP than his peers. At best, and more likely, he has been totally fair to RP.

This seems like a case of <whoever writes fundraising letters> screwing up. The sentiment is reasonable, but not when directed towards AC.
well... the campaign did drop the ball on the 40 min thing, but it wasn't even a campaign press release. It was an email to supporters.

I do have a gripe with AC. The RP campaign said, "Dr. Paul has top fundraising, strong polling and the best organization in key early states. It is time for the mainstream media to stop writing their own self-fulfilling prophesy and give equal time to all the top candidates in this race." AC took that to mean equal interview time, and in response, he showed how often RP has been on AC360 in the past year. That is not the issue. And for him to bring this up, and say "look, no bias" is dishonest.

The issue is that he's rarely talked about. Just watch the debate coverage or the evening news on any of these channels. In any discussion about the GOP field, they'll talk about ~5 candidates and Paul is usually left out. RP should be clear about that any time he gets asked about media bias.
10-21-2011 , 12:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary_Tiger
Anderson Cooper piece is a net positive for the campaign since it replayed some of Paul's answers.
Really? He apparently has an open invite to actually appear on the show....which seems alot better than having your campaign embarrassed for making stuff up.

Quote:
But yeah, campaign needs to realize this isn't 1988 anymore and your direct mail fundraising letters will get scrutinized in this day and age. They need to be more careful when writing in Ron Paul's name. I'm pretty sure he did go forty minutes without talking in the first hour of the Bloomberg debate and campaign should've backtracked to that instead of what they did. It was a little unfair in that six of the seven candidates got to answer the last question, so it's a little dishonest to act like the letter was just making stuff up with regard to closing statements.
True, the gibberish response that they gave, not addressing any of the supposed lies was really bad.
10-21-2011 , 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermion5
I do have a gripe with AC. The RP campaign said, "Dr. Paul has top fundraising, strong polling and the best organization in key early states. It is time for the mainstream media to stop writing their own self-fulfilling prophesy and give equal time to all the top candidates in this race." AC took that to mean equal interview time, and in response, he showed how often RP has been on AC360 in the past year. That is not the issue. And for him to bring this up, and say "look, no bias" is dishonest.
Well, the issue was whether or not Paul's campaign said blatantly false things in a fund raising newsletter. The campaign's response was a complete non-sequitur, so it's hard to blame AC for an incorrect interpretation when the campaign completely ignored the subject.
10-21-2011 , 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
Really? He apparently has an open invite to actually appear on the show....which seems alot better than having your campaign embarrassed for making stuff up.



True, the gibberish response that they gave, not addressing any of the supposed lies was really bad.
fwiw, paul said after the debate he thought it was great because he finally got fair time. Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZKzNzcSjw8
The letter sent out does not appear to be from the Paul camp, but a grassroots group. Paul does not use that revolution graphic on any official stuff so far as i know. We dont know how CNN inquired to get that response or if they fairly represented the situation. Part of this doesnt make sense.

also cooper is being disingenuous when saying we had him on 7 times. sometimes they ask his opinion on things unrelated to the campaign. The problem isnt interviews either. Its when they have a discussion about politics they never mention in him. In and around the debate you see no mention of paul on cnn.com/politics. Articles on CNN about the debate show nothing of him. The clips that were available after the debate, none included paul. The post debate discussion got little to no mention of paul. Cooper can't deny paul isnt taken seriously and does not get adequate treatment. the media, cnn very much included, downplays his achievements and is often very presumptious on his chances.
10-21-2011 , 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zygote
fwiw, paul said after the debate he thought it was great because he finally got fair time. Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZKzNzcSjw8
The letter sent out does not appear to be from the Paul camp, but a grassroots group. Paul does not use that revolution graphic on any official stuff so far as i know. We dont know how CNN inquired to get that response or if they fairly represented the situation. Part of this doesnt make sense.
The name that flashed on the screen was Jesse Benton Paul 2012 Spokesmen. Other sources also imply that he has an official role within the Paul campaign rather than just a leadership position in a grassroots group.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/13/fa...-eyebrows.html

I dont' see any reason for CNN to not fairly represent the situation... they clearly caught them in a lie. If the campaign wants to claim that the PAC is not run by the candidate or campaign they could have, but apparently didn't. I'm not sure what doesn't make sense...if somebody catches you in a clear lie rambling about something else is often the only option to avoid admitting that you lied.

Last edited by Max Raker; 10-21-2011 at 12:38 AM.
10-21-2011 , 12:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zygote
fwiw, paul said after the debate he thought it was great because he finally got fair time. Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZKzNzcSjw8
The letter sent out does not appear to be from the Paul camp, but a grassroots group. Paul does not use that revolution graphic on any official stuff so far as i know. We dont know how CNN inquired to get that response or if they fairly represented the situation. Part of this doesnt make sense.

also cooper is being disingenuous when saying we had him on 7 times. sometimes they ask his opinion on things unrelated to the campaign. The problem isnt interviews either. Its when they have a discussion about politics they never mention in him. In and around the debate you see no mention of paul on cnn.com/politics. Articles on CNN about the debate show nothing of him. The clips that were available after the debate, none included paul. The post debate discussion got little to no mention of paul. Cooper can't deny paul isnt taken seriously and does not get adequate treatment. the media, cnn very much included, downplays his achievements and is often very presumptious on his chances.
He has used the revolution graphic on his website on multiple occasions.
10-21-2011 , 01:42 AM
Ron Paul crushes on youtube...

http://www.youtube.com/politics
10-21-2011 , 05:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
Well yeah... the problem is he isn't doing well in the polls.
Better than Perry who gets mentioned a ton more.

Attacking Cooper was indeed attacking the wrong guy but I guess if you had attacked Fox or Bloomberg instead they would have just ignored it. Still pretty bad to have blantantly false claims in fundraising letters. Amateur hour.

Last edited by clowntable; 10-21-2011 at 06:01 AM.
10-21-2011 , 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
The name that flashed on the screen was Jesse Benton Paul 2012 Spokesmen. Other sources also imply that he has an official role within the Paul campaign rather than just a leadership position in a grassroots group.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/13/fa...-eyebrows.html

I dont' see any reason for CNN to not fairly represent the situation... they clearly caught them in a lie. If the campaign wants to claim that the PAC is not run by the candidate or campaign they could have, but apparently didn't. I'm not sure what doesn't make sense...if somebody catches you in a clear lie rambling about something else is often the only option to avoid admitting that you lied.
Jesse Benton definitely is Paul's campaign manager. But the fact he didnt address the situation was weird. We dont know what CNN asked to get that response.

And Paul himself definitely didnt write into that email they showed complaining about time. As i noted, he was very pleased about that debate and actually went out of his way to say it was fair on a competing network.

I'm still not sure the email CNN found seeking donations was actually from Paul's campaign. Im curious to see that part settled.

In any case, other CNN debates have clearly left him out. This was the first one it was relatively fair. Santorum gets more speaking time then Paul most often, and I dont know how thats justified if they are discriminating via popularity.
10-21-2011 , 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermion5
He has used the revolution graphic on his website on multiple occasions.
we still need proof that this email came from Paul's official campaign rather than a grassroots group. This fundraiser is not organized by the Paul camp so its not far off my assumption.

Last edited by Zygote; 10-21-2011 at 08:29 AM.
10-21-2011 , 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zygote
we still need proof that this email came from Paul's official campaign rather than a grassroots group. This fundraiser is not organized by the Paul camp so its not far off my assumption.
I have the e-mail in my Inbox. It's from "ron_paul@ronpaul2012.com" and signed "For Liberty, Ron Paul." Obviously he didn't write it, but when you let your name get attached to stuff, you will have to answer for it.
10-21-2011 , 09:05 AM
Like I've said in the past, CNN definitely the fairest network. Good job RP campaign, morans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tannenj
now you've seen it.

run and [ignore] THAT, homeboy.
well max?
10-21-2011 , 09:08 AM
RP should go on AC360 (that's the name of his show right) and apologize flat out to Anderson and tell him it was an email which had been written for the Bloomberg debate and something got mixed up.
10-21-2011 , 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by clowntable
Better than Perry who gets mentioned a ton more.
But the Perry mentions over the past 4 weeks have been overwhelmingly negative. Perry's huge drop off and jackass behavior at the debate is more interesting to the average viewer than Paul neither gaining or losing in ground.
10-21-2011 , 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary_Tiger
I have the e-mail in my Inbox. It's from "ron_paul@ronpaul2012.com" and signed "For Liberty, Ron Paul." Obviously he didn't write it, but when you let your name get attached to stuff, you will have to answer for it.
ya thats not cool. thanks for confirming. can you post the full e-mail?
10-21-2011 , 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary_Tiger
I have the e-mail in my Inbox. It's from "ron_paul@ronpaul2012.com" and signed "For Liberty, Ron Paul." Obviously he didn't write it, but when you let your name get attached to stuff, you will have to answer for it.
To be fair, Paul has never had to deal with this issue before
10-21-2011 , 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
To be fair, Paul has never had to deal with this issue before
lolololol

      
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