So we might get those fema camps with the formaldehyde trailers after all.

For now you guys are only given them Drugs to sedate them atm and locking the kids in cages. Have no Idea how many have died or been abused while under sedation. Ffs I'm almost crying writing those words. Bastards.

We are the bad guys.

(Not)Concentration camps are arguably better than shooting them at the border, which is what this administration would prefer. So, yeah, let's hear him out. This could be a big win.

Buddy you personally have a history with Nazi sympathizing is this really a hill you want to die on?

My appoligies, I should have said it was not aimed at the decent folks. And that how it's so difficult to stop it. It's just a nightmare all round.

No appoligies necessary. When history gets around to judging us most decent Americans have to much apathy to get a pass.

heavily scrutinized by who? this administration? loll

he can say "I'm going to fly judges down there" all day, but I doubt it would actually happen. once they get people locked up it will be "we don't have the money". but they also don't want to spend money keeping people imprisoned, so not only will the conditions be horrific but they will also quickly put them to work, ship them off immediately to wherever they feel like, or worst case scenario...

I hope this isn't what happens, but knowing what this administration has already done and what they've tried to do I don't think it's implausible. nothing matters anymore... his supporters would cheer, some of America would be outraged momentarily but do nothing, and life would go on...

+1

Keeping as many people detained for as possible for as long as possible and private prisons collecting $/day/person is part of the plan.

So it’s like concentration camps but with a late-stage capitalism angle.

Next stage, we can’t afford to give free room and board to these prisoners. Plus, for some reason we have nobody to pick crops lately and also can’t compete with cheap foreign manufacturing. And, well, you know.

Oh right, I forgot how much private prisons profit off keeping their beds full. They’ll just lobby for more tax payer funding if new prisons are “needed”

When everything is corrupt it’s hard to keep track of all the layers

The scary part is that they could come out and say that they want to create concentration camps filled with Mexicans (or anyone brown enough to be called Mexican) to provide free agricultural labor (and other jobs Americans simply won’t do) and 30-40% of the country would cheer that they’re making America great again.

The facade is just to keep the rest of the country placated.


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A lot of people who vote for Democrats have talked about Bracero-like immigration programs.

I understand a bit about the reasons why the Bracero program was exploitative but I have this feeling that some kind of migrant work visa program would still be better than the status quo? Not as the only solution to immigration, but alongside other reforms. I could be wrong, of course. I don't really know enough to judge. But in some of the ethnographies of migrant workers that I have read it sounds like at least some would prefer to have the freedom to move back and forth across the border and would prefer that kind of system. Others of course just want to immigrate permanently, and I would want to greatly expand legal immigration too.

( twitter | raw text )

Er, there were hundreds of scientists working on that project.

correct me if i am wrong, but it seems like putting refugees in the fields as free labor is not going to do wonders to the wages of an economically distressed rural voter.

#AllHolesMatter

I think there's a way in which making the workers the responsibility of the employers makes workers the property of the owners. A farm laborer is probably better off getting their own fake id/ss# and having everyone pretend they are legally here than having their residency officially handled by the farmer.

Agreed on that. I didn't have in mind that it would be individual employers managing the visa status or being responsible, or even that someone on a work visa must have a sponsoring employer. I just had in mind the idea of a work visa program that was distinct from permanent immigration programs and would allow seasonal migration. So not like H1-B for migrant workers.

Rural voters will never take agricultural jobs, even though they’re widely available. It’s one of the last industries where minimum wage doesn’t apply and Americans simply won’t do that kind of back breaking labor for horrifically low wages. North Carolina, for example, is the second largest user of the H2-visa program for guest workers. The North Carolina Growers Association (NCGA) needed 6500 workers in 2011, and they are required to prove to the department of labor they searched for American workers and could not meet their labor needs before turning to immigrant labor.

Out of 489,000 unemployed north carolinans in 2011, only 268 asked to be referred to the NCGA. 245 were hired, 163 showed up the first day. Only 7 worked the whole season. And this is under a system that requires them to pay immigrants the same wages as they do native workers.

We need immigrant labor, and the administration is systematically putting our labor supply in prison/concentration camps. It’s only a matter of time before $2/hour for picking strawberries becomes $0.

H2 is a temporary work Visa, but if you're not sponsored in some way, then what's "work" about it? If it's a work Visa in which no one does anything to verify whether or not you're working, then it's better than the status-quo I guess, but wouldn't enact such a program and expect it to not evolve into one in which sponsorship/responsibility/accountability is required.

That's fair enough. Like I said my thoughts are hazy. I guess to be really general the question in my mind is whether it makes sense to have different paths, e.g. there is one pathway that is about expanding legal permanent immigration, with reasonable pathways to citizenship, and normalizing the legal status of existing long-term undocumented residents.

There is another pathway(s) for people who don't want to permanently immigrate or necessarily become citizens but who do want to easily and legally migrate back and forth, usually for work. Like a long-term visa program. Maybe that doesn't make sense or there are practical considerations like the ones you raise that would be problematic, but it seems like there might be some use for the distinction.

There are 3 choices with strawberries:

1. Immigrant labor making low wages
2. We import all (almost) our strawberries
3. https://www.fastcompany.com/40473583...-its-robo-hand