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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

03-21-2017 , 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
I can't be the only one who finds Supreme Court hearings boring. We all know Justice Grouch is a big business Republican anti abortion politician and we know he won't affirmatively answer any of the big political questions so it becomes like asking Paul Ryan at the beginning of this new term if he will cap Medicare and him winking that he can't answer it.
I can muster pretty much zero interest. None of what is said is going to impact confirmation. The republicans highjacked a scotus appointment. Do I think they would think twice about confirming a guy who has already been pre-vetted for their half dozen checkboxes. Also I don't think the democrats are going to meaningfully oppose an actual confirmation so it's just like whatevs.

The republicans in congress already stole this scotus seat and it's not coming back. Opposition has to be based on things that will ultimately get them out of office.

Gorsuch could admit to killing three month olds and drinking their blood to live longer and he would still be confirmed. (Babies 90 days younger would be a deal breaker).
03-21-2017 , 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettFavre
This battle is being fought in a very short-sighted fashion.

Even if Trump is somehow removed from office as a result of this, his election and actions while in power have done potentially irreparable damage to our democracy. Even if Trump is dumped, right-wing populism has a large enough audience to play a critical role in American politics for the foreseeable future. I fully expect a smarter, more politically savvy version of Donald Trump to come around and exploit the same masses again, this time by taking Trump's plans and dressing them up in a way palatable enough to get even intelligent people who were opposed to Trump to come along for the ride. A Marine Le Pen type would do quite well in future elections. Might even win the popular vote.

As long as this seen as a battle against Trump and not a battle to destroy the entire ideology of right-wing populism, our government will collapse and inevitably an autocrat will gain control.
Basically agree except I think that a liberal candidate could also use many of Trump's techniques as well. The basic problem is that the skills needed to get elected are only mildly correlated with the ability to govern. They often go hand in hand and usually people with only the first ability are stopped before they reach the finals. But if they are not they will beat an opponent without their talent.

The solution of course is to make harder for gullible people to decide the country's fate, but no one wants to do that.
03-21-2017 , 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Money2Burn
I'm not sure how you can say all the complicated scandals slung at Clinton failed. The general public may not care about the specific details, but they generally think the truth is somewhere in between or that there's something there because everyone is talking about it, etc. Republican complicated scandals was a major factor in people not liking her.
The reason emailgate stuck was because the FBI was putting out press conferences and writing letters, which simplified the scandal from "what she did" to "being under FBI investigation".
03-21-2017 , 09:22 PM
i always thought it was suspicious that trump was ALWAYS very conciliatory about bernie voters, not even offering them anything to get their votes, but consoling them like, "wow crooked hillary really screwed you guys over, i feel bad for you". and evidently bernie was targeted by the troll army to drive unnecessary division among liberal voters with fake news reposts and deploying highly sophisticated and aggressively confrontational bots like hastendan to depress democratic turnout.

so trump has links to the fsb troll army, whether it can be proven he colluded or if he was given "bad" advice, i imagine trump will ultimately get away with it. plus what's in it for republicans in congress to stop this? lol
03-21-2017 , 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
Basically agree except I think that a liberal candidate could also use many of Trump's techniques as well. The basic problem is that the skills needed to get elected are only mildly correlated with the ability to govern. They often go hand in hand and usually people with only the first ability are stopped before they reach the finals. But if they are not they will beat an opponent without their talent.

The solution of course is to make harder for gullible people to decide the country's fate, but no one wants to do that.
or you could go with the candidate that gets the most votes
03-21-2017 , 09:25 PM
Quote:
so trump has links to the fsb troll army, whether it can be proven he colluded or if he was given "bad" advice, i imagine trump will ultimately get away with it. plus what's in it for republicans in congress to stop this? lol
Not sure if you're aware of this:

Democratic House Candidates Were Also Targets of Russian Hacking
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/u...king-dccc.html
Quote:
South Florida has long been a laboratory for some of the nation’s roughest politics, with techniques like phantom candidates created by political rivals to siphon off votes from their opponents, or so-called boleteras hired to illegally fill out stacks of absentee ballots on behalf of elderly or disabled voters.

But there was never anything quite like the 2016 election campaign, when a handful of Democratic House candidates became targets of a Russian influence operation that made thousands of pages of documents stolen by hackers from the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee in Washington available to Florida reporters and bloggers.

“It was like I was standing out there naked,” said Annette Taddeo, a Democrat who lost her primary race after secret campaign documents were made public. “I just can’t describe it any other way. Our entire internal strategy plan was made public, and suddenly all this material was out there and could be used against me.”

The impact of the information released by the hackers on candidates like Ms. Taddeo in Florida and others in nearly a dozen House races around the country was largely lost in the focus on the hacking attacks against the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign. But this untold story underscores the effect the Russian operation had on the American electoral system.

“This is not a traditional tit-for-tat on a partisan political campaign, where one side hits the other and then you respond,” said Kelly Ward, executive director of the D.C.C.C. “This is an attack by a foreign actor that had the intent to disrupt our election, and we were the victims of it.”

Why the Russian government might care about these unglamorous House races is a source of bafflement for some of the lawmakers who were targeted. But if the goal of Russia’s president, Vladimir V. Putin, was to make American democracy a less attractive model to his own citizens and to Russia’s neighbors, then entangling congressional races in accusations of leaks and subterfuge was a step in the right direction.

The intrusions in House races in states including Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Ohio, Illinois, New Mexico and North Carolina can be traced to tens of thousands of pages of documents taken from the D.C.C.C., which shares a Capitol Hill office building with the Democratic National Committee.
03-21-2017 , 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
O RLY
Obama's problem all along was that no GOP congresspeople were born in Kenya
03-21-2017 , 09:40 PM
So Huffington Post did an article on foreigners trying to cash in on the fake news phenomenon with Sanders supporters. In one part it lists a comical Google translation for a Facebook Group, Bernie Sanders Lovers. You could imagine what they were aiming for was Lovers of Bernie Sanders, or Bernie Sanders' Admirers, or something. So Huffington Post emailed them for a comment about being foreigners with, perhaps, ties to Russia. Here's their response.

Quote:
UPDATE: March 13 ― The Facebook page “Bernie Sanders Lovers” responded to this article on Sunday, saying: “We were never linked up with Russians and we will never be with them.”

“How come that we would write of Trump’s advantage and support him when we are democrats,” the page administrator wrote. “Even though we are democrats we do not support Hillary Clinton. We are not linked with the government to support someone that we do not like, to be encouraged to support someone, but we are those who desire and want progress.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0ed71826cdb36
03-21-2017 , 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King_of_NYC
or you could go with the candidate that gets the most votes
You don't think its possible that Trump's techniques would have won the popular vote if that had been the rules they were operating under? In any case he got more votes than his positions, without his persuasive abilities (which some would say included lying) would have gotten. A saner seeming candidate with similar abilities would win the popular vote.
03-21-2017 , 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
The reason emailgate stuck was because the FBI was putting out press conferences and writing letters, which simplified the scandal from "what she did" to "being under FBI investigation".
The constant drumbeat of Benghazi(!) also hurt her, despite the "scandal's" complete lack of coherence or substance. Even the Clinton Foundation stuff had regular conservatives (in my circles at least) confidently asserting that she was just as corrupt as Trump.
03-21-2017 , 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
You don't think its possible that Trump's techniques would have won the popular vote if that had been the rules they were operating under? In any case he got more votes than his positions, without his persuasive abilities (which some would say included lying) would have gotten. A saner seeming candidate with similar abilities would win the popular vote.
Trump lost by 3 million votes. He won EC by 40K votes in 4-5 states. He's bigly unpopular despite what Trumkins think.
03-21-2017 , 09:46 PM


https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/844325752468312068

Yea we already knew that. Like Trump wasn't going to install his children and relatives in the executive branch. Come on.

Also makes all those pictures in meetings make more sense. She always had the position, they were just waiting for the cries of nepotism to die down.
03-21-2017 , 09:47 PM
I think those things didn't bleed through to the normies, though. That's what we're talking about here. #ImWithHer people will believe to their dying day that Hillary had the election stolen by Putin, but regular folks? It's just a buzz of scandal.

Now a buzz of scandal is better than no scandal at all, but without easy to connect dots there's just no there there
03-21-2017 , 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RV Life
Trump lost by 3 million votes. He won EC by 40K votes in 4-5 states. He's bigly unpopular despite what Trumkins think.
Yeah if it wasn't for Comey breaking the law and releasing the letter to Congress about their Clinton investigation DURING THE VOTING PERIOD, she is absolutely the President right now no doubt in my mind. Now he needs to be charged with violation of the Hatch Act, especially since we know TRUMP was under investigation at the same time but he didn't feel the need to disclose that.
03-21-2017 , 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Yeah if it wasn't for Comey breaking the law and releasing the letter to Congress about their Clinton investigation DURING THE VOTING PERIOD, she is absolutely the President right now no doubt in my mind. Now he needs to be charged with violation of the Hatch Act, especially since we know TRUMP was under investigation at the same time but he didn't feel the need to disclose that.
Yea I agree. It's insane. Comey, Trump, Sessions, and Flynn should all be in jail.
03-21-2017 , 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
You don't think its possible that Trump's techniques would have won the popular vote if that had been the rules they were operating under? In any case he got more votes than his positions, without his persuasive abilities (which some would say included lying) would have gotten. A saner seeming candidate with similar abilities would win the popular vote.
short answer - no. what "rules" were they operating under that suppressed his ability to earn votes? he topped out whatever his brand of candidate would ever see in terms of vote count. and even with the interference, he fell 3 million short. no candidate, given his flavor of politics, will do better

Last edited by King_of_NYC; 03-21-2017 at 10:00 PM. Reason: rv supressed my ponie
03-21-2017 , 10:03 PM
Just a reminder that this complaint was filed months ago.

Former Bush Ethics Lawyer Files Complaint Against FBI Director for Email Disclosures
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate..._director.html
Quote:

A former chief ethics lawyer at the White House, who served during George W. Bush’s presidency, has filed an ethics complaint against FBI Director James Comey. In an op-ed published in the New York Times on Sunday, Richard W. Painter writes that he filed a complaint against the FBI for violating the Hatch Act, "which bars the use of an official position to influence an election." He filed the complaint with both the Office of Special Counsel and the Office of Government Ethics.

Painter, who was the head White House ethics lawyer between 2005 and 2007 and now supports Hillary Clinton, says Comey violated the Hatch Act when he sent the letter to lawmakers on Friday informing them of the newly discovered emails. “This letter, which was quickly posted on the internet, made highly unusual public statements about an FBI investigation concerning a candidate in the election,” writes Painter. “The letter was sent in violation of a longstanding Justice Department policy of not discussing specifics about pending investigations with others, including members of Congress.”

Although Comey’s previous statements may be concerning, there is no actual evidence yet that the FBI director actually wanted to influence the election. Still, that is irrelevant as far as the Hatch Act is concerned.

Painter also warns that letting this precedent stand would be dangerous:

This is no trivial matter. We cannot allow FBI or Justice Department officials to unnecessarily publicize pending investigations concerning candidates of either party while an election is underway. That is an abuse of power. Allowing such a precedent to stand will invite more, and even worse, abuses of power in the future.

Speaking to LawNewz.com, Painter says he doesn’t buy the argument that Comey had to send the letter because he had promised to update lawmakers on the issue. The FBI director could have easily sent the letter two weeks later, after voters had gone to the polls, and no one would have been able to argue that he “breached that promise to update,” particularly considering the reports that “the FBI apparently had not even looked at the emails because they did not have a search warrant.”
03-21-2017 , 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Not sure if you're aware of this:

Democratic House Candidates Were Also Targets of Russian Hacking
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/u...king-dccc.html
WaPo 1/18/17 - Russia’s radical new strategy for information warfare
Andrey Krutskikh, a senior Kremlin adviser, made the startling comments at the Russian national information security forum, or “Infoforum 2016,” held Feb. 4 and 5. His remarks were transcribed by a Russian who attended the gathering and translated for me by an independent European cyber expert.
...
According to notes of Krutskikh’s speech, he told his Russian audience: “You think we are living in 2016. No, we are living in 1948. And do you know why? Because in 1949, the Soviet Union had its first atomic bomb test. And if until that moment, the Soviet Union was trying to reach agreement with [President Harry] Truman to ban nuclear weapons, and the Americans were not taking us seriously, in 1949 everything changed and they started talking to us on an equal footing.”

Krutskikh continued, “I’m warning you: We are at the verge of having ‘something’ in the information arena, which will allow us to talk to the Americans as equals.”

Last edited by ScreaminAsian; 03-21-2017 at 10:06 PM. Reason: emphasis mine but he probably had emphasis of his own i imagine
03-21-2017 , 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
The solution of course is to make harder for gullible people to decide the country's fate, but no one wants to do that.
iirc you'd require voters to pass a knowledge test. That's one way to limit the impact of gullible people. The left's package to remedy the same problem includes well-funded public education and broadcasting alongside campaign finance restrictions and limits to media conglomeration. The right... will give us vouchers to attend religious school to learn that e.g. climate change is a Chinese scheme to undermine America
03-21-2017 , 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
The solution of course is to make harder for gullible people to decide the country's fate, but no one wants to do that.
Assuming such a plan was constitutional, how would it work? How would we ever get everyone to agree on the test questions for example? Seems impossible simply from a practical standpoint
03-21-2017 , 10:21 PM
Remember when the Secretary of State went to the far East with only a single, non-pool journalist? Well that journalist has now filed an interview/profile from that:

https://twitter.com/nktpnd/status/844366344908877824



Jesus.

I haven't even read it all yet, but that quote is such a doozy.

More, from the same passage:

Quote:
“When he asked me at the end of that conversation to be secretary of state, I was stunned.”

When Tillerson got home and told his wife, Renda St. Clair, she shook her finger in his face and said, “I told you God’s not through with you.”
Better God than Putin, I guess???
03-21-2017 , 10:22 PM
This is the guy who's negotiating peace with North Korea. Great.
03-21-2017 , 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klingbard
Remember when the Secretary of State went to the far East with only a single, non-pool journalist? Well that journalist has now filed an interview/profile from that:

https://twitter.com/nktpnd/status/844366344908877824



Jesus.

I haven't even read it all yet, but that quote is such a doozy.

More, from the same passage:



Better God than Putin, I guess???
Yea, believable story. A billionaire oil exec not saying "I got better **** to do with my billions" when the offer comes in to be sec of state. When I logic through this, it doesn't make sense. What does make sense however is that he became sec of state to oversee the lifting of sanctions so that he and Putin can do their 500 billion dollar oil deal. That seems to make sense.
03-21-2017 , 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
This is the guy who's negotiating peace with North Korea. Great.
When this is all over, whatever's left of humanity is probably never going to let white people have the vote ever again,
03-21-2017 , 10:44 PM
Neil Gorsuch does not belong on the Supreme Court
by Elizabeth Warren
Quote:
Over the past three decades — as the rich have gotten richer and middle-class families have been left behind — the scales of justice have been weighted further and further in favor of the wealthy and the powerful. That tilt is not an accident. It’s the result of a deliberate strategy by powerful interests to turn our courts over to the highest bidder.

Its effects have been devastating. Recent court decisions have let giant corporations that cheated their consumers off the hook, unleashed a flood of secret money into the political process, and made it easier for businesses to abuse and discriminate against their employees.

At the core of this strategy is an all-out attack on fair-minded, mainstream judges. A prime example is the unprecedented blockade of Judge Merrick Garland’s nomination to the Supreme Court — a consensus nominee praised by Republicans and Democrats alike as a thoughtful, intelligent, and fair judge. None of that mattered for powerful right-wing groups that decided that Garland’s record did not reflect a sufficient willingness to bow down to the interests of the wealthy few. So they poured millions into a public smear campaign to stop his confirmation and leave the seat open.

During his campaign, Trump promised to nominate a Supreme Court justice selected exclusively from a list drawn up by far-right groups with ties to these same wealthy interests. As president, Trump kept that promise when he nominated Gorsuch last month to fill the vacancy.

Even before his elevation to the bench, Gorsuch’s right-wing, pro-big business views were clear. For example, he wrote an article arguing that liberals are too addicted to the court system and should keep important social issues like gay marriage, physician-assisted suicide, and school vouchers out of the courts. Notably absent was a similar critique of conservatives who pursue their interests in the court system. And Gorsuch has advocated for making it harder for investors and shareholders to bring lawsuits when companies commit securities fraud.

On the bench, his judicial decisions show a remarkable ability to shape and re-shape legal arguments in ways that benefit large corporations and disadvantage ordinary people seeking justice. In the Burwell v. Hobby Lobby Stores case, when he had to choose between the “rights” of corporations and the rights of women, Gorsuch sided with corporations. In consumer protection cases, when he had to choose between the “rights” of corporations and the rights of swindled consumers, Gorsuch sided with corporations. In discrimination cases, when he had to choose between the “rights” of corporations and the rights of employees to be free from harassment and abuse, Gorsuch sided with corporations.

Gorsuch has taken positions that are even more extreme than his extremely conservative colleagues. When it comes to the rules that protect public health and safety, Gorsuch is more radical than Scalia was. Gorsuch believes that courts should not be required to defer to expert agency interpretations of their governing laws. If he had his way, he’d make it even easier for corporations to challenge health and safety rules that prevent them from polluting our air and water, poisoning our food, undermining public safety, or cheating people out of their hard-earned savings.

Big companies and rich right-wing billionaires are spending top dollar to help a judge like Gorsuch get over the finish line. But that’s not how our court system is supposed to work. Our courts are supposed to be neutral arbiters, dispensing justice based on the facts and the law — not the party with the most money or political power.

      
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