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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

02-18-2017 , 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8
What does my religious training have to do with my claim?

Is your position that the People's Temple, Branch Davidians, Unitarianism, and Catholism are morally equivalent?
I'm just wondering where your knowledge of Islam comes from, you come in here claiming to read world-class scholars but have you actually read the Koran or Muslim scholars to get their opinion on Islam's morality?
02-18-2017 , 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
Guess Trump didn't **** up that badly today.

You guys are talking about Bill Maher itt
famous last words
02-18-2017 , 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8
Surely you are not posting a Wikipedia list as refutation of my claim. Have you read his books or listened to his podcasts.

He is not ignorant of Islam by any definition.
In answer to that, I have listened to several hours of his podcasts and haven't read any of his books. I agree with him more often than not.
02-18-2017 , 04:30 PM
Alright guys lets get off the religion train pls thx.
02-18-2017 , 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic
He probably shot like 120, but I could probably only beat that by 12.
Dear Leader would never have such a bad round, the worst he's claimed since 2009 is an 86.
02-18-2017 , 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by All-In Flynn
This hinges on the assumption that everyone ultimately responds in the same way to the same things. Fascists and their apologists may be evil, but that doesn't mean they're stupid. We have no reason to assume that their desire for mainstream exposure undermines their aims unbeknownst to them. Absent some powerful case to that effect, we should assume that they are entirely correct in pursuing it - that it's good for them and good for their goals.

The left has seriously got to shake off this ****ing West Wing **** where Principled Debate will Win The Day if you just, like, debate hard enough or craft just the right gotcha or whatever. Like when Pence went to Hamilton and the cast did that stupid We hope, Mr Vice-President-Elect, that our hip-hop-infused musico-historical comedy has INSPIRED you to blah blah blah. One look at Mike Pence and you know the only thing that's ever inspired him is dashcam footage of a queerbashing.

Milo Hanrahan-Hanrahan has a blog and a podcast and a whatever the **** else. His free speech - even in the most liberal interpretation of 'free speech' possible, where boycotts and the like represent incursion on it - is not affected by refusing to have him on a popular TV show. Anyone who's curious can find out what he thinks. Anyone susceptible to his message will not be insulated by the presence of a Principled Debater. 'Oppose whatever reactionaries are seeking' is a good enough rule of thumb here.
History just does not support your claim. I can't think of an example where censorship resulted in social progress. Every social debate has been won when the wrong side got to express thier wrong opinions. Of course we will lose some battles (like this election) but the arc of history is clearly towards greater social progress.

Nobody should be forced to book idiots like Milo, nor should anyone be forced to watch if he is booked. I just think we lose the moral high ground and feed right into the trumpkin narrative if we spend all our time trying to play wack-a-mole with people like Milo. Let's say we succeed in preventing him from ever speaking publicly. There will be another Milo right behind him.

We win by having better ideas and showing they work better in the real world.

We don't win by preventing the other side from speaking.
02-18-2017 , 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
I'm just wondering where your knowledge of Islam comes from, you come in here claiming to read world-class scholars but have you actually read the Koran or Muslim scholars to get their opinion on Islam's morality?
I've literally read every single text of the major, and several minor, religions. That doesn't mean I'm right or wrong though. My assertion stands aside from my perceived experience.
02-18-2017 , 04:36 PM
The good news is the line to bet on Trump not to **** up on a given day is pretty short.
02-18-2017 , 04:36 PM
Quote:
That willingness, he finds, is basically nonexistent. Every year from 1998 to 2012, at least 130,000 North Carolinians were unemployed. Of those, the number who asked to be referred to NCGA was never above 268 (and that number was only reached in 2011, when 489,095 North Carolinians were unemployed). The share of unemployed asking for referrals never breached 0.09 percent.

When native unemployed people are referred to NCGA, they're almost without exception hired; between 1998 and 2011, 97 percent of referred applicants were hired. But they don't tend to last. In 2011, 245 people were hired out of 268 referred, but only 163 (66.5 percent) of the hired applicants actually showed up to the first day of work. Worse, only seven lasted to the end of the growing season
The party of Donald Trump has a two step solution to this problem:

1. Eliminate all aid to the unemployed.

2. Let them start seeing their children with stomachs distended from starvation and they'll start taking those jobs.
02-18-2017 , 04:37 PM
microbet,

Once Devos guts the public schools there will be plenty of kids to work in those fields anyway.
02-18-2017 , 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amoeba
So my problem with this is that to get to even 35%, you need some republicans to change their minds.Protests have been going on since the republican primaries and that didnt stop him from becoming president. If protests can't even persuade a republican to vote for a moderate within his ownparty like Kasich, what chance do you have of getting that same person to go against the President he voted for? The people you need to get to 25% dont really care about protests.

I do agree that incompetence will change minds which is why i suggest strategies for highlighting incompetence. What Trump is good at is manipulating media. Why attack him at his strong suit? Instead, let him trip over his own ego.

One of the keys to persuasion is to convince the other person that it was their idea all along.
His popularity is 7% less than it was right after the election. That's repubs jumping ship. His hardcore supporters will be tough.but those numbers aren't huge.
02-18-2017 , 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8
I've literally read every single text of the major, and several minor, religions. That doesn't mean I'm right or wrong though. My assertion stands aside from my perceived experience.
Okay well I won't derail the thread any longer but what I'm getting at is this--it's not the religion itself that's the problem. It's the terrorism and authoritarianism often done in the name of Islam. The same thing could be done in the name of Christianity (for example the Holocaust, slavery) but it doesn't mean it properly reflects the teachings of Jesus + the Bible.
02-18-2017 , 04:39 PM
Clovis man, not a good last few pages bro.
02-18-2017 , 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
The party of Donald Trump has a two step solution to this problem:

1. Eliminate all aid to the unemployed.

2. Let them start seeing their children with stomachs distended from starvation and they'll start taking those jobs.
I seem to recall Sklansky had a sure-fire solution.
02-18-2017 , 04:42 PM
Clovis, there is no loss of moral high ground if you dont invite him.

There is a huge difference between not inviting him and protesting a place to which he has already been invited.
02-18-2017 , 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic
His popularity is 7% less than it was right after the election. That's repubs jumping ship. His hardcore supporters will be tough.but those numbers aren't huge.
I dont deny that he has become less popular. I deny that it is due to protests.
02-18-2017 , 04:43 PM


Hoping Garland has a better track record on this kind of thing than Kurt Eichenwald.
02-18-2017 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amoeba
Clovis, there is no loss of moral high ground if you dont invite him.

There is a huge difference between not inviting him and protesting a place to which he has already been invited.
Totally agree.

As I said earlier I think Maher had good reasons for booking him.
02-18-2017 , 04:47 PM
I woild have much rather Maher booked Ben Shapiro but you know, Maher has a boss to answer to as well.
02-18-2017 , 04:47 PM
Any Trumpites want to defend this?

Obama Spent $97M on Travel in 8 Years. Trump Family Will Hit That in 7 Months
Taxpayers will be footing Trump family's massive travel bill.


Meanwhile we have to kill PBS and the NEA because reasons.
02-18-2017 , 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic
His popularity is 7% less than it was right after the election. That's repubs jumping ship. His hardcore supporters will be tough.but those numbers aren't huge.
If the economy remains strong for the next 18 months his popularity will soar, real people don't care about all the minor nonsense you guys whine about in this thread.
02-18-2017 , 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99


Hoping Garland has a better track record on this kind of thing than Kurt Eichenwald.
is anyone taking this seriously? Seems like a big deal I feel like this guy does, just my gut.
02-18-2017 , 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
Guess Trump didn't **** up that badly today.

You guys are talking about Bill Maher itt
Stay tuned, for the night is dark and full of terrors.
02-18-2017 , 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
microbet,

Once Devos guts the public schools there will be plenty of kids to work in those fields anyway.
I don't feel like really attempting a good poast here, but the "arc of history" stuff Clovis was talking about fundamentally rests imo on the power of the people and their demand for rights which rests on education.

A broad real education across the entire society is the best guarantor of freedom possible.

Education of girls is the best path towards liberalization in backwards patriarchal societies.

The recipe for regression in the United States isn't student actions against reactionary speakers, it's decline in public education, McDonaldsization/privatization of schools, and the decline of the press and it's submission to power and commercial interests.

And the reactionaries are counting on all of the above. Good schools for the rich and bad for the poor is part of the plan. Degradation of the humanities, except for the children of the ruling class is what they want. They don't want people to be political. They don't want people to care. They really don't want people to vote.

02-18-2017 , 04:49 PM
MAGAing is expensive ldo.

      
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