The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. - Page 3703 - Politics and Economics

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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

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04-10-2018 , 11:39 PM

#92551

sofocused978

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6,765

Man November can't get here soon enough. I'm in Florida so I don't care if we skip summer.

04-10-2018 , 11:47 PM

#92552

JoltinJake

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,236

That Mueller ad is going to send some lawnmowers into orbit.

04-10-2018 , 11:53 PM

#92553

JoltinJake

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,236

Quote:

Originally Posted by uDevil

Ok idk what is going on.

What do you mean? This is the same **** that's been going on. Nunes is a well known Trump toady and scumbag deplorable.

04-10-2018 , 11:55 PM

#92554

Our House

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 28,109

Quote:

Originally Posted by uDevil

Ok idk what is going on.

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/9...392589824?s=19

Was just about to post this. Speaking of Fox News and Laura's loss of advertising, right?

Nunes: I'll be the first to say there's collusion if I see it with Trump. I just don't see it. I've see a bunch of other things that make the DOJ & FBI look bad though.

04-10-2018 , 11:58 PM

#92555

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 57,075

Quote:

Originally Posted by sofocused978

Man November can't get here soon enough. I'm in Florida so I don't care if we skip summer.

+1. We hit the 90s in parts of SoCal today. I'm all for skipping summer.

04-11-2018 , 12:10 AM

#92556

uDevil

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 6,941

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoltinJake

What do you mean? This is the same **** that's been going on. Nunes is a well known Trump toady and scumbag deplorable.

Impeach Wray? "Absolutely!" Makes him look like a complete idiot. Why is FOX showing him up?

Edit: nevermind, considering the audience, it's self-consistent. I think I have a fever.

Last edited by uDevil; 04-11-2018 at 12:32 AM.

04-11-2018 , 12:24 AM

#92557

Our House

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 28,109

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/9...282714624?s=19

That's one way to flip seats. Reelection might be tough though.

04-11-2018 , 12:33 AM

#92558

fatkid

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 8,860

Dobbs twitter poll flipping should be a national sport.

04-11-2018 , 12:34 AM

#92559

JoltinJake

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,236

Quote:

Originally Posted by uDevil

Impeach Wray? "Absolutely!" Makes him look like a complete idiot. Why is FOX showing him up?

I'm not following. In what way is Fox showing him up? You know Fox viewers like what Nunes is saying, right? They don't think this makes him look like an idiot. Check out the replies to the tweet.

04-11-2018 , 01:09 AM

#92560

markksman

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Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,921

Quote:

Originally Posted by Our House

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/9...282714624?s=19

That's one way to flip seats. Reelection might be tough though.

Donald Trump is very smart. He knows everyone wants to win, so he will just flip the SAD loser democrats to republicans.

If the democrats get control in mid terms, Trump will just flip to being a democrat. He is playing at a level we can not even understand.

04-11-2018 , 01:17 AM

#92561

Our House

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 28,109

Impeach Wray and fire the other anti-Trump traitors!

Wray - Republican appointed by Trump
Rosenstein - Republican appointed by Trump
Sessions - Republican appointed by Trump
Mueller - Republican
Comey - Republican
McCabe - Republican (I think)
Brand - Republican

Trump: It's an Obama holdover deep state Democrat donor political WITCH HUNT!

04-11-2018 , 01:18 AM

#92562

uDevil

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Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 6,941

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoltinJake

I'm not following. In what way is Fox showing him up? You know Fox viewers like what Nunes is saying, right? They don't think this makes him look like an idiot. Check out the replies to the tweet.

You are right. It just struck me as out of the blue to attack Wray. He's Trump's appointee. He's only been in the job 8 months or so. He's not directly involved in the investigations. What's he supposed to do, that wouldn't be unethical, to help Trump? What would it accomplish to put him on trial for his job? Trump is pissed at Mueller, Rosenstein and Sessions so let's lash out at this other nearly random guy seems nuts. But Trumpers are nuts. I forgot that for a minute.

04-11-2018 , 01:29 AM

#92563

OmgGlutten!

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 5,273

Just put Trump himself in charge of all of those positions. Solved.

04-11-2018 , 01:37 AM

#92564

simplicitus

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Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,840

How the Cohen Raids and Trump’s Reactions Edge Us Toward Confrontation
By Benjamin Wittes

Quote:

I will put this as bluntly as I know how: There is no way that the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York would have sought or executed a search warrant against the president’s lawyer without overpowering evidence to support the action. The legal standard for such a search requires only probable cause that criminal activity is taking place. Under normal circumstances, which these are not, the prudential and policy factors counseling against such an action would be powerful.

For starters, the Justice Department is institutionally cautious about searches involving attorneys acting in their role as attorneys. As Paul Rosenzweig noted, “the U.S. Attorney’s Manual has an entire section that limits how and when the offices of an attorney may be searched. Realizing full well that such searches are in derogation of the value of the [attorney-client] privilege, the manual requires high-level approvals, the exhaustion of other investigative avenues, and specifies procedures that are to be followed to limit the intrusion on privileged documents.” Moreover, the Justice Department would have been additionally cautious about seeking any warrant against this particular lawyer—precisely because doing so makes clear that a ring is closing around the president. Going after a prominent person’s lawyer for matters related to his representation of the client is, after all, an aggressive act toward the client, not just toward the lawyer. And Trump is, as he puts it, a counterpuncher.

This is the kind of step that would predictably elicit a reaction. The Justice Department simply would not take such an action lightly or without evidence that emphatically supports it. Add these prudential, legal and policy factors together and they cumulatively suggest that the evidence supporting the warrant application likely exceeds—probably by far—what is legally required.

Put another way, Cohen’s situation, and thus Trump’s situation, is grave.

04-11-2018 , 02:09 AM

#92565

simplicitus

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Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,840

NY Times editorial (i.e., not a contributor or columnist)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/o...ohen-raid.html

Quote:

Mr. Trump has spent his career in the company of developers and celebrities, and also of grifters, cons, sharks, goons and crooks. He cuts corners, he lies, he cheats, he brags about it, and for the most part, he’s gotten away with it, protected by threats of litigation, hush money and his own bravado. Those methods may be proving to have their limits when they are applied from the Oval Office. Though Republican leaders in Congress still keep a cowardly silence, Mr. Trump now has real reason to be afraid. A raid on a lawyer’s office doesn’t happen every day; it means that multiple government officials, and a federal judge, had reason to believe they’d find evidence of a crime there and that they didn’t trust the lawyer not to destroy that evidence.

04-11-2018 , 02:24 AM

#92566

aarono2690

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,874

Quote:

Originally Posted by StimAbuser

Is there a way around this? This kind of power is insane to me.

McCain/Flake could sack up and switch to (D) to get some damn protection in place then flip back.

McConnell is neutered immensely if he loses the majority.

04-11-2018 , 02:45 AM

#92567

David Sklansky

Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,155

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplicitus

How the Cohen Raids and Trump’s Reactions Edge Us Toward Confrontation
By Benjamin Wittes

Maybe there is something I am misunderstanding. But if not, I would think that in order to raid a lawyer's office, the Feds should not only need to know with almost certainty that they would find evidence of a crime but also that the crime be very serious. I say this because privileged information is exposed to that team of people whose job is to make sure that it is not divulged to the investigators. And I would assume that even includes info about other clients not involved in the case.

But how can one be sure that those guys will go to the grave with that info? When an attorney tells his client that the stuff said to him is privileged, he doesn't add "unless my office is raided and the agent decides to disclose it even though he shouldn't." If he did he might lose some business.

So is there something I'm missing?

04-11-2018 , 03:01 AM

#92568

JoeC2012

veteran

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2,717

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Sklansky

By all accounts I've read since this case broke, getting PC on a lawyer is indeed tougher than it is on an average citizen.

But no, I don't think you're missing anything. Cops can screw over people in the line of duty of course (get a load of this: sometimes they even shoot innocent black people!). I think letting some AC priviledged info slip is probably pretty low on the hierarchy of worst ways a cop can screw up your life.

04-11-2018 , 03:17 AM

#92569

iron81

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 17,729

Particularly because info that is actually privileged can always be suppressed at trial.

04-11-2018 , 04:10 AM

#92570

ChrisV

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Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

Like anything criminal, there's nothing stopping people doing that except that there are big disincentives (criminal prosecution for misuse of private information, a mistrial if they screw up, etc). Obviously we don't normally trust that these things will be enough to keep the State from abusing their power, that's why things like the Fourth Amendment exist. But a lot of people have to sign off on something like this, it's not just some guy deciding to do it. And what's your alternative plan? If an attorney is engaged in criminal conspiracy with a client and is claiming A-C privilege to stop you seeing anything related to it, the choice is to either have some way of piercing that privilege, or else to have attorneys be above the law.

04-11-2018 , 05:22 AM

#92571

Huehuecoyotl

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Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,282

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

They very often have to rule on cases involving the executive branch.

My understanding is the guy recused himself because he was a Trump donor or bundler or something related to campaigning for him, not just because he was appointed by Trump.

Last edited by Huehuecoyotl; 04-11-2018 at 05:28 AM.