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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

02-06-2017 , 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by LordJvK
What are the valid reasons for "shutting me down"?
When there's a legitimate bad poster, the forum has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.
02-06-2017 , 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Namath12
The hilarious irony here is that there are actually fewer terrorist victims now than there were in like the 70s in Europe, but people erroneously believe that there are MORE now because the 24-hour media sensationalizes the **** out of them.
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Originally Posted by zikzak
I think it's less about media coverage and more about the ethnicity of the terrorists. IRA, ETA, etc. were frequently painted as heroes in some circles. You could openly raise funds for them in polite society.
This video sums it up (utubes but funny and well worth watching).

02-06-2017 , 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by suzzer99
This is a good article that makes me question how much of a buffoon Trump really is, or if his buffoonery is being played expertly by Bannon to provide cover: https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/...n-munich-post/



And the happy ending:



How many of today's journalists would stand their ground in a similar spot?
Morons can be dangerous. Hitler was a moron too. See WWII. He had Stalin wrapped around his finger, but he tired of everything going his way in the war and invaded Russia and declared war on the US in 1941.

And like the GOP, he only believed in his kind of science, not Jew science, and that kept him from getting the bomb first.

The time in Germany was right for a loudmouth narcassistic nationalist to become a hero and that's where we seem to be as well.
02-06-2017 , 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Kirbynator
didnt say he wouldnt

fox news people actually becoming honest journalists is the one thing that would end Trump's sanity and his cult.

If they turned against him his whole fake news claims (about everyone else) would fall apart.

*but I guess theyd only turn against him when they know he's done, so they're useless.
90% of their viewers would just switch to Breitbart overnight. Fox's viewers know the truth, that's been settled for a long time. They just want a news source to corroborate it for them.
02-06-2017 , 06:34 PM
i think you have to be pretty far down the hole to take breitbart as your primary source of news.

I think theres a big amount of conservatives that take everything fox says seriously but would never stoop as low as using breitbart as their only "real" news source.

Eh who ****ing knows :/
02-06-2017 , 06:37 PM
The base would bolt. They want their daily affirmations that everything libtards do and say is wrong. They don't care where they get it. FoxNews found this out the hard way when they went hard against Trump in the primaries.
02-06-2017 , 06:41 PM
fox news switching to honest journalism would be like comedy central programming ken burns marathons
02-06-2017 , 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
I think it's less about media coverage and more about the ethnicity of the terrorists. IRA, ETA, etc. were frequently painted as heroes in some circles. You could openly raise funds for them in polite society.
They were separatist movements, akin to a civil war almost. Today's European terrorism is a war of Islamic radicals against western culture.
02-06-2017 , 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by .isolated
I watched his press conference at 1:45. He did indeed say that. Then he went on to mention all of the attacks since 9/11 but curiously enough left out the attack on Muslims ~10 days ago in Canada. Somehow I think if it was a Muslim killing 6 Canadians, it'd be mentioned.
Trump and all of his followers, and others of that ilk, are giving the media far too much credit for being organized. The media is a multi-headed monster. Just the thought that all of the media would agree to skip coverage of a terrorist attack is absurd. What happens when that rogue tv station decides to cover it and grabs all of Trump's precious ratings? The white house press corps can't even seem to follow up on one another's questions at a Spicer news conference. How are they going to conspire to not cover terrorist attacks?
02-06-2017 , 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Autocratic
The thing is that narcissists are good at this sort of thing as a general rule. That is, they are good at manipulating the people around them into seeing the world through their preferred lens. Trump isn't "trying" to do anything strategic per se, but he's using the same manipulative tactics that would work better on an interpersonal level. In national politics the narrative is harder to control. What you are seeing is not him masterfully manipulating that narrative. It's him struggling to control it when people are able to shine a light on his dishonesty.

Narcissists are always surprisingly effective at manipulation from the perspective of those who are aware of the truth. I think I've said this before in so many words, but Trump has basically stumbled unwittingly into a narcissist's nightmare. He is in one of the few positions on Earth where people are both eager and able to pull back the veil, and his ability to control it is minimal. All of his lies and shenanigans stem from that reality.
A presidential campaign is a wonderful place for a narcissist. You have endless seas of adoring crowds, constant attention, and people defending you to the death.

Being president is nearly the opposite experience I would imagine. Your supporters have much less immediate benefit from fervently defending and adoring you. Your detractors have lots of immediate benefit, and turn from supporting your opponent to opposing you directly.

The concern is that the most direct way to get back to the adoring crowds and people defending him is by engaging in conflicts and establishing a fascist government.

It will be interesting to see what he does once he faces some actual problems. So far, literally everything that has gone wrong for him has been a result of his own stupidity or terrible decisions. Crises of his own invention, with no conceivable purpose.
02-06-2017 , 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JacktheDumb
I did learn that the US legal system is called common law. Common law means that the law of the land is what courts rule. So this guy is a ****ing idiot.


On a side note. Three of the current supreme courts judges are over 80 years old. This seems odd, isnt there such a thing as retirement for judges in the USA?

Those guys were born BEFORE World War II and they are the ones shaping the law of the US.
There is mandatory senior status or retirement for all non SCT federal judges at 65 or 70. Funny thing is, senior status judges get paid the same whether they take a reduced case load or fully retire. Most decide to continue hearing like a 30-50% case load instead of retiring or cashing out. Some senior judges are still hearing cases at 90+ y/o. Whether or not Trump knows what the courts do, being a federal judge is kind of a big deal.
02-06-2017 , 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TheNewT50
A presidential campaign is a wonderful place for a narcissist. You have endless seas of adoring crowds, constant attention, and people defending you to the death.

Being president is nearly the opposite experience I would imagine. Your supporters have much less immediate benefit from fervently defending and adoring you. Your detractors have lots of immediate benefit, and turn from supporting your opponent to opposing you directly.

The concern is that the most direct way to get back to the adoring crowds and people defending him is by engaging in conflicts and establishing a fascist government.

It will be interesting to see what he does once he faces some actual problems. So far, literally everything that has gone wrong for him has been a result of his own stupidity or terrible decisions. Crises of his own invention, with no conceivable purpose.
It should again be stated that he didn't want to win. His entire team prepared zero pages of transition work. He had filed to start the trump news network.
02-06-2017 , 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
Yea they aren't idiots but they all sing from the same hymnbook. S E Cupp has the "persecuted Christian conservatives are the lowest on the totem pole, college social justice warriors are emblematic of everyone on the left" mantra down. They just don't take it to the natural conclusion that Trump/Bannon does, they just do it to rile up the base. Basically Republican establishment culture warriors.
Not fair to put Andrew Sullivan in here. He's a conservative in a very limited sense, the kind that loves Obama and considers Trump a national emergency.
02-06-2017 , 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by aoFrantic
It should again be stated that he didn't want to win. His entire team prepared zero pages of transition work. He had filed to start the trump news network.
Probably had all the "Clinton was born in Kenya!" stories all ready too. Oh well..
02-06-2017 , 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Autocratic
+1. This is why the allegations of 4D chess are wrong, and the allegations that he is knowingly lying are sort of missing the point. His lies are compulsive in the literal sense, because narcissists must perpetuate a certain perception of themselves.
Yeah like, y'all aren't thinking this through. Normal people lie for very, very specific reasons, in very, very specific ways. "I wasn't home the night my husband was murdered" "The check is in the mail" and so forth. Normal people's lies are aware of the reality, aware that the reality is bad for them, and they use their critical thinking ability to come up with a plausible story that is better for them.

Trump just lies to lie. Reality is not a thing he cares about, he creates his own reality. That's very different than just being wrong or incorrect. Lots of people are incorrect without lying, but those are honest mistakes. Trump doesn't sincerely believe he's accurately describing reality, the concept of "accurately describing reality" is just entirely foreign to his worldview.
02-06-2017 , 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Kirbynator
i think you have to be pretty far down the hole to take breitbart as your primary source of news.

I think theres a big amount of conservatives that take everything fox says seriously but would never stoop as low as using breitbart as their only "real" news source.

Eh who ****ing knows :/
My sample size is low, but I was surprised by an older smart poster in OOT who is generally not very political mentioning Breitbart as a regular source when asked. I had never even looked at that site once until very recently, but have been thinking I need to check it out as it's the POTUS' main source of info.
02-06-2017 , 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by suzzer99
Nah, Bill will fall in line. He just got a little extemporaneous there.
Bill is a real old guy, he grew up and was an adult during the Cold War when foreign policy moral clarity was a big deal to the right, he's just behind on the messaging. He's got the pink script pages and the rest of the GOP has the yellow.
02-06-2017 , 07:22 PM
I think Trump once had an above average intellect, maybe 80% or so, but he's always lacked checks and balances in his own head, so his own motor would run him off the road. I think his mental faculties have since declined. He was never one for legal/procedural subtleties, and he isn't going to learn them now, but that's pretty much the job of the president. Kind of a problem.
02-06-2017 , 07:22 PM
Re: Narcissism

Unless you have direct experience with a narcissist, it is a major challenge to understand someone with NPD. Some relevant information:

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A narcissist often criticises or vilifies others but hates it when others criticise him or her; they are hypercritical of others, yet hypersensitive to criticism.
The narcissist may also be very adept at vilifying, doing it in a gracious or innocent or humorous manner, and making his or her backbiting seem socially acceptable.
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A narcissist can be dishonest, but at the same time is a master of disguise and can lie very convincingly. The narcissist's lies may take the form of exaggeration or, in some cases, complete fabrication. To many who live with the narcissist it seems that the narcissist has a cavalier disrespect for precise truth. If one questions their inaccuracies, their response will often be outrage that you dare question their integrity (even when the lie is obvious), or berating you for being so petty to point out their fabrication.
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A lack of genuine empathy (e.g. feeling genuinely sad when seeing other people being sad) is a key aspect of pathological narcissism
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Others will regularly get angry at the narcissist's inappropriate, unethical, bullying behaviors, and they will immediately be dismissed by the narcissist as hotheads, jealous, liars, or as having any number of other defects. After all, their anger has to be inappropriate since the narcissist will never admit to being wrong themselves. This tactic also simultaneously provides them another level of denial, as the narcissist feels that everyone loves him and wants to be more like him, so the narcissist thinks that even people who are openly hostile to them really like them; they are simply short-tempered or jealous. The narcissist will typically go to great lengths to make everyone, including the person getting upset, feel like they are in the right, by focusing on the person's reaction to the narcissist's outrageous behavior, drawing attention away from their own conduct which led to the other person getting upset in the first place.
02-06-2017 , 07:39 PM
Conversation in The Daily Mail news room.
What are we running on page one? That terrorist attack?
No no. Hush that up and run the piece about gypsies eating swans.
02-06-2017 , 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Kirbynator
i think you have to be pretty far down the hole to take breitbart as your primary source of news.

I think theres a big amount of conservatives that take everything fox says seriously but would never stoop as low as using breitbart as their only "real" news source.

Eh who ****ing knows :/
No way. Fox is not very far from breitbart. They are quite similar and that is a big problem.

Fox should absolutely not be given any sort credit.
02-06-2017 , 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Louis Cyphre
Andrew Sullivan, PJ O'Rourke, Reihan Salam, SE Cupp are conservatives that aren't nut jobs.
Sullivan is a centrist. O'Rourke is a bit of a nutter, but in the libertarian style rather than the normal GOP style.
02-06-2017 , 07:46 PM
02-06-2017 , 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Namath12
The hilarious irony here is that there are actually fewer terrorist victims now than there were in like the 70s in Europe, but people erroneously believe that there are MORE now because the 24-hour media sensationalizes the **** out of them.
The Global Terrorism Database is useless. They count it as "terrorism" every time paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland assassinated members of opposing paramilitary groups. This amounts to a gang fight. This is not what most people mean when they say "terrorism", they mean what are my chances of being randomly blown up in a public place.

Among their bigger problems:

- They rely on media reports for the incidents, so heavily-reported-on conflicts like The Troubles will be way over-represented compared to similar squabbles elsewhere in the world.

- They try to eliminate subjectivity by having a broad definition of terrorism, but this creates more subjectivity. For instance, IRA attacks against military targets are included as "terrorism", but the activities of the Army of Republika Srpska in Bosnia in 1992 are not, even though the Republika Srpska was not internationally recognised as a country. That one is recognised as "legitimate warfare" and the other isn't is an act of pure subjectivity.
02-06-2017 , 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisV
Sullivan is a centrist. O'Rourke is a bit of a nutter, but in the libertarian style rather than the normal GOP style.
The difference between O'Reilly and the base is that he's ON Fox News, he doesn't watch Fox News.

His politics are pretty typical of a Republican from the tri-state area, he's pretty moderate on the issues. His personal racism sort of covers that up and has let him continue in an increasingly revanchist right wing, but even there there's a difference between Long Island/Boston-style racism("racism as a concept is bad, but gotta admit, blacks sure are lazy and criminal") and Alabama racism("the white race's proper position is that of the superior race").

      
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