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pole: which best describes you? pole: which best describes you?
View Poll Results: which best describes you? (multiple choice)
Anarchist
45 32.14%
Classical Liberal
49 35.00%
Communist
11 7.86%
Fiscal Conservative
40 28.57%
Moderate
24 17.14%
Socialist
20 14.29%
Social Conservative
6 4.29%
Social Liberal
40 28.57%
Statist
12 8.57%

09-01-2011 , 09:25 PM
Results clearly indicate that Libertarians really, really enjoy pointing out their affiliation.
09-01-2011 , 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPoppa
Wouldn't all non-anarchists be statists?
No. Anarchy = You are against hierarchical authority. The state is simply one example of hierarchical authority, which of course all anarchists are against. So one can be anti-state and still be a non-anarchist (that would mean they support some other form of hierarchical authority like say patriarchy, capitalism, feudalism, etc). ACists are a classic example of non-anarchists who are against the state. They are against the state BUT they support capitalism which is an economic system where the few govern the many in the typical workplace, where most people are rendered to being order-takers for all of their working lives--an extreme form of hierarchical authority.
09-01-2011 , 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILOVEPOKER929
ACists are a classic example of non-anarchists who are against the state. They are against the state BUT they support capitalism which is an economic system where the few govern the many in the typical workplace, where most people are rendered to being order-takers for all of their working lives--an extreme form of hierarchical authority.


But there's something you're missing; The self interest of the workers. The workers are working under management because it is in their self interest to do so. They are not there out of force, out of coercion, they are there by their own choice and volition. Thus, they benefit from the arrangement, just as the employing managers do, as their role is driven by their own self interest.
09-01-2011 , 09:46 PM
LirvA you do realize there's at least 4 types of anarchism right? and they vary as much as communism and capitalism do.
09-01-2011 , 09:47 PM
Options should be Dem/Rep or WAAF imo. No need to have more than two options.
09-01-2011 , 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILOVEPOKER929
No. Anarchy = You are against hierarchical authority. The state is simply one example of hierarchical authority, which of course all anarchists are against. So one can be anti-state and still be a non-anarchist (that would mean they support some other form of hierarchical authority like say patriarchy, capitalism, feudalism, etc). ACists are a classic example of non-anarchists who are against the state. They are against the state BUT they support capitalism which is an economic system where the few govern the many in the typical workplace, where most people are rendered to being order-takers for all of their working lives--an extreme form of hierarchical authority.
and this is wrong.
09-01-2011 , 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermion5
LirvA you do realize there's at least 4 types of anarchism right? and they vary as much as communism and capitalism do.

Could only use 10 choices so I had to pack them all into one imo.
09-01-2011 , 09:52 PM
Am I:

statist
social liberal
moderate

?

Cant work out if im socialist or moderate or both, im in favour of some socialism such as universal healthcare and fire services but reject widespread government monopolies on stuff like mail delivery and phone lines. Basically what Britain has now. Statist and social liberal seem no brainer choices for me otherwise.
09-01-2011 , 10:00 PM
If a man ever in his life had a no brainer choice at the voting booth, he'd be a complete, destructive fool not to vote with his heart.
09-01-2011 , 10:05 PM
You're high!
09-01-2011 , 10:09 PM
09-01-2011 , 10:09 PM
[x] BASTARD!

write-in vote.
09-01-2011 , 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LirvA
POSTERSHIP NEEDS IMPROVEMENT


lol, you're just awesome
09-01-2011 , 10:19 PM
Quote:
But there's something you're missing; The self interest of the workers. The workers are working under management because it is in their self interest to do so.
This is a poor argument. Just because it's in their interest to do so doesn't mean the totalitarian nature of the typical business is justified. It was also in the self interest of chattel slaves to keep slaving away because of the dire consequences of rebelling. Self-interest doesn't get us anywhere.

Quote:
They are not there out of force, out of coercion, they are there by their own choice and volition.
This is also a poor argument. Voluntarism not enough. The fact that most people would rather work for a boss than starve to death/face dire poverty if there's some kind of a welfare state does not justify the authoritarian boss/wage laborer relationship.

Quote:
Thus, they benefit from the arrangement, just as the employing managers do, as their role is driven by their own self interest.
Another poor argument. The fact that both sides benefit tells us nothing. The fact that a 12 year old may be extremely excited to work in a sweatshop for 15 cents an hour because now he may not starve to death does not justify the existence of sweatshops. It's true that the capitalist benefits because he gets to severely exploit the 12 year old and thus make lots of profits, and the 12 year old benefits because he gets to live, but so what. Only a psychopath or someone who is extremely indoctrinated would support that setup.
09-01-2011 , 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavesofliberty
lol, you're just awesome
no u


09-01-2011 , 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Phill]
Am I:

statist
social liberal
moderate

?

Cant work out if im socialist or moderate or both, im in favour of some socialism such as universal healthcare and fire services but reject widespread government monopolies on stuff like mail delivery and phone lines. Basically what Britain has now. Statist and social liberal seem no brainer choices for me otherwise.
If you favor what Britain has now, isn't it pretty obvious that your political philosophy is horrible?
09-01-2011 , 10:25 PM
lol
09-01-2011 , 10:38 PM
individualist anarchist. disobey.
09-01-2011 , 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILOVEPOKER929
This is a poor argument. Just because it's in their interest to do so doesn't mean the totalitarian nature of the typical business is justified.
Claim, but no proof. When you state something that the vast majority of the human race rejects you need to provide some reasoning behind it. I've listened to a number of people talk about Anarchism (Chompsky is most recognizable) and it the reasoning rarely goes beyond superficial analogies and unverified statements of "fact".
09-01-2011 , 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortes fortuna adi
Claim, but no proof. When you state something that the vast majority of the human race rejects you need to provide some reasoning behind it. I've listened to a number of people talk about Anarchism (Chompsky is most recognizable) and it the reasoning rarely goes beyond superficial analogies and unverified statements of "fact".
09-01-2011 , 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILOVEPOKER929
Self-interest doesn't get us anywhere.

Nonsense. Look at where you are right now. What you're doing, how you live, where you've been, where you've come from, where you're going. It is all consequential of your choices. You choose the direction of your own life on the basis of your own self interest. Whatever advances your self interests and your happiness and well being, leads to improvement and advancement in your life.

Last edited by LirvA; 09-01-2011 at 10:53 PM.
09-01-2011 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILOVEPOKER929
The fact that most people would rather work for a boss than starve to death/face dire poverty if there's some kind of a welfare state does not justify the authoritarian boss/wage laborer relationship.

It is not boss and servant. It is not master and slave. All it is, is trade. The employers and bosses are trading part of their income and part of their resources for part of their employee's. Likewise, the employee is trading part of his time and part of his resources for part of the employers money. They both are men of trade, and trading freely between themselves improves both of their lives, circumstances, and positions.
09-01-2011 , 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortes fortuna adi
Claim, but no proof.
Anarchy is based on the ASSUMPTION not a claim, that hierarchical authority is illegitimate. Nothing needs to be proved. If you don't accept that assumption you're not an anarchist. It's very simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortes fortuna adi
When you state something that the vast majority of the human race rejects you need to provide some reasoning behind it.
Well I disagree strongly. I think most people are opposed to authority. The very fact that authoritarian systems like feudalism, chattel slavery capitalism, capitalism, the nation-state model, etc had to be violently IMPOSED on people with great force is strong evidence (at least to me) that most humans don't like authoritarian setups--that most humans are naturally anarchists.
09-01-2011 , 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavesofliberty
I'm bored, so I rant online. What do you do when you're bored?
09-01-2011 , 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortes fortuna adi
I'm bored, so I rant online. What do you do when you're bored?
same as you, lol. cheers. it's just you insulted his favorite author. I've been down the same road with him before. it always ends the same. so I'm going to sit it out.

he's huge into Chomsky. I personally don't like Chomsky at all, and find him as vacious and incoherent as you probably do.

      
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