I think violent movies, TV shows, and video games are best described this way as well. They're all symptoms of the underlying problem.

Such grace.

Yeah it's real important to not let people ever try to describe a group's impact on society by pretending that group isn't itself part of society.

And more specifically, if we're talking about violent films, that was the culture war of decades ago. It's so old that modern violent films are often described as "throwbacks", to the point of direct reboots like Death Wish and The Equalizer and the '00s craze of remaking 1970s horror movies.

There's a very odd tendency in American media to pretend like it's still 1995. People who grew up watching Rambo and **** are in their 50s and 60s, these shooters are the GRANDCHILDREN of the first generation of post-censorship code filmgoers. And the people who MADE those movies are like 70.

If Ted had only been there yesterday to confront the shooter, he'd have provided a shining example by offering, in the face of anger and a shotgun, his message of God's love, grace and understanding. But first he'd have crapped his pants.

my highschool and junior high had the one door entry, everyone has to funnel passed the office. We had a school shooting while i was there..

it helped <0.

that **** is like the stranger danger craze, like these arent random MUSLIMS coming in our murican schools its just kids that would walk past the ONE entrance anyway because they belong there. just like its uncle billy that's touching the kids, not the nice transgender lady in the public bathroom.

eta- not only did the junior high(where the shooting occurred) have one entrance every student had to go to either the gymnasium or the cafeteria to await first bell. which looking back led to quite a target rich environment..

Texas is open carry right?

Let's hire the scariest looking minority possible to open carry a machine gun around white politicians

I hope you enjoy your manslaughter charge if you implement that.

lol fly had you nailed

Woosh

For shooting a black guy brandishing a weapon? That's like a misdemeanor in my state.

they have to have a weapon in your state? in mine she got off for shooting an unarmed dude and got a better paying job in a more whitebread county doing the same ****.

Sigh. Again, i feel it is my obligation as a non american to point out that we have a sample size larger than one.

Any explanation for amrican gun violence must look at other countries as well.

Hint. They have violent films, games etc in Japan and Sweden

One of the problems w/ this approach is the amount of time required.

I wonder why there isn't a parents movement: Keep their children out of school for a month and see what happens.

To the same degree as in America? Cite?

Also, not sure if you're following the argument here. I wasn't trying to argue that violent films and games are THE cause of gun violence. Rather, I was arguing they are symptoms of America's cultural fetish with force and violence as a means of solving problems. The prevalence of guns being another symptom, as argued by ChrisV and Matt Taibbi.

Sorry, I'm not totally following and am curious to understand what you're arguing here. That violent films have been around a long time, so they don't explain the uptick in mass shootings?

If so, I would point to this study: "Results found that violence in films has more than doubled since 1950, and gun violence in PG-13–rated films has more than tripled since 1985."

But again, I'm not saying violent films and games are THE root problem here (although I do think they contribute through the "weapons effect"). They are symptomatic of a culture that increasingly idolizes the military, violence, and force in general.

You wont me to cite that Japan and Sweden have violent movies and games??? Really?

I think i get what you are saying. I still think you need to look at other countries.

If other places have violent games etc too then either

1. They have a different cause there. I.e. in america they are a symptom of the cultural fetish with force, but not in japan etc.

Or

2. They also have a cultural fetish with force, but that hasnt resulted in guns.

The problem is, if you only look at one country, you can construct any narrative you like and it looks great.

Its not just guns, americans do this on other issues. I.e. explaining global economic trends based on US policies.

But how many entrances and exits do they have?

Do you know what "degree" means? I'm asking you to cite something saying that Japanese and Swedish people watch as many violent movies or play as many violent games as Americans.

I'm legitimately asking, I don't know the answer. But I would be surprised if Americans don't consume way more.

Rugby -- Also, if you are arguing the only root issue here is the prevalence of guns (not sure you are?), I could use the same logic you just used against that: i.e. other countries also have guns, therefore the root problem can't be the guns.

That doesn't make any sense, obviously. Degree matters. How many guns there are is clearly part of the problem. The degree to which American culture glorifies violence matters, too, IMO.

Yeah, this. Violent media is a symptom, not a cause.

I also think "violent media" is a very broad category. The original Evil Dead was, hilariously, banned in the UK for a while for being too violent, but it does not in any way carry the same message of the efficacy of political violence that, say, Zero Dark Thirty or 24 do. The message is more that it sucks to be up against demons. Japan has some very violent stuff - Battle Royale comes to mind - but again, the political message is absent. The problem isn't violence in itself, it's the message that violence is how you go about solving social and political problems, and that good people who are "driven to violence" (they typically have no choice, yo) are heroic as a result.

I mean, check this **** out. Goofy posted this a little while back in the LC thread, I think.



I don't know how you interpret that ad in any way other than "going and using violence against people you don't like is awesome and will make you a hero". You'll have to take my word for it that I don't think that ad could air in Australia without a backlash. I think you're from the UK right Jake? Same deal there?

This has some charts on ganes. The US is fairly high.but japan and south korea higher.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...mes-safer.html

Just skimmed the rest of the article, doesnt seem great, because obviously poverty is the major factor that correlates positively with violence and negatively with video games.

I wasnt arguing that (although i do believe it).

I was arguing that violent games and movies are a poor explanation for gun violence (or even as a shared symptom of the underlying cause), because other countries have them too, to the same degree or more.

More broadly i was arguing that discussions of american policy are often sorely lacking global context and comparison.

Yes, if a BB gun counts as a weapon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...n_Crawford_III

I agree on the messages. 24 was gross, and really helped torture be more widely accepted.

I think this is more of a problem politically than with day to day violence.

Is american day to day violence any different to violence in other places? In terms of motivation etc?