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*Official* On to Nevada/Michigan/SC/Florida Thread *Official* On to Nevada/Michigan/SC/Florida Thread

01-27-2008 , 02:53 AM
I've been out all day. obama waffle crushes hillary, great to hear.
01-27-2008 , 03:37 AM
lol gobbomom, I make a picture as a joke and I have no right to because Im not American? **** that


What about the picture rubbed you the wrong way? FWIW I made it because I was watching his speech and saw the word "change" on dozens of boards as well as on the podium and I noticed that it rhymed with Kane, that is about as far as my political satire goes. Sorry for being Canadian.
01-27-2008 , 04:07 AM
I am probably one of the few people bothered by Obama's appeal to foreigners and pundits. It creates bad expectations when he comes into the presidency.

Many Africans look upon Obama's possible ascent as a chance for Blacks to wrest concessions from the U.S. government - basically utter tribalism as the situation in Kenya illustrates. Instead of the idea "let's work for the common good", many of them think of political power as "it's our fair turn to take from the Treasury." Obama's narrative as the African American leader of the future will only raise those expectations here and abroad.

Obama has too many narratives around him. "Change" is a popular one, but I would rather him use that as a cynical way to gain votes than actually have foreigners' expectations of US actions be raised, because that opens the door to exploitation and bitterness. Suppose that it is the will of the American people that with rising gas prices we can't afford the neo-Kyoto, Bali, so we choose of our sovereignty to impose a less stringest carbon tax than the Europeans do. Obama might be forced to account diplomatically to the various foreign constituencies pulling for his elections and overall hurt relations cold emerge.

No one really expects any real consensus change from Hillary. She will not be vastly different in substance and style from Bush, except perhaps in foreign policy. There will still be FISA wiretapping and powerful federal agents. This lowering of expectations might lead to a more familiar diplomatic territory that we can manage.
01-27-2008 , 05:00 AM
"There will still be FISA wiretapping and powerful federal agents."

Huh? It was her husband who gutted our intelligence and put up walls that ensuredagencies never got too powerful.
01-27-2008 , 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbomom
but really, what's the point? I know it's an interesting conversational subject, much as we like to discuss international politics, but you Canadians seem to think your thoughts really matter in American politics. Maybe they do? somehow, and I'm glad you all even care, but seriously> posting your thoughts concerning our candidates just make us more territorial. imo.

I guess the pic. just rubbed me wrong.
lol, chill out.

as an official american, i endorse dan87's picture. i thought it was kinda funny
01-27-2008 , 06:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellytimber
gobbomom, as a fellow obama supporter, I enjoy pretty much everything you post in this forum, but this post bewildered me. I'm pumped if Canadians like Obama; one of my favorite aspects of Obama's candidacy is how appealing he is everywhere around the world. I'm interested in what any foreigners think about our politics...it's not like we americans haven't made some pretty f'd up political choices lately. Not to mention our presidential elections have a profound global effect. And if we invade Canada in the next ten months he is a potential voter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan87
lol gobbomom, I make a picture as a joke and I have no right to because Im not American? **** that


What about the picture rubbed you the wrong way? FWIW I made it because I was watching his speech and saw the word "change" on dozens of boards as well as on the podium and I noticed that it rhymed with Kane, that is about as far as my political satire goes. Sorry for being Canadian.
I guess I just feel "protective" towards him, for some strange reason. I'm sorry my post offended you. I also didn't word my post very well in expressing my curiosity about why the [primarily] Canadians on this board seem so "in to" our election. I LIKE it, too but it just seems kind of weird. Maybe it's just because it's different. Again, I'm sorry I didn't express myself very well.
01-27-2008 , 06:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseS87
lol, chill out.

as an official american, i endorse dan87's picture. i thought it was kinda funny

yeah, I was dumb. it happens.
01-27-2008 , 09:38 AM
The superdelegate count can be quite misleading.

Superdelegates - unlike regular delegates - are not obligated to vote at the convention as they pledged.

The interesting question here is what the party insiders would do at a genuinely close convention. You might think that Clinton, with her long-connections, would do better. But these people are also the ultimate pragmatists, and I think that the overriding consideration would be electability.

At the moment, CW is that Obama has more general election appeal.
01-27-2008 , 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbomom
but really, what's the point? I know it's an interesting conversational subject, much as we like to discuss international politics, but you Canadians seem to think your thoughts really matter in American politics. Maybe they do? somehow, and I'm glad you all even care, but seriously> posting your thoughts concerning our candidates just make us more territorial. imo.

I guess the pic. just rubbed me wrong.
I'd be pretty interested in this, too if I was Canadian. Especially if I had family in the military. They pay in blood for US decisions in Iraq.

And it's pretty obvious why non Americans follow the elections. For one my poker account is in $ so I'm interested in seeing someone who doesn't rob me by inflating this joke of a currency even further. I also happen to buy US products on a daily basis so I want the US economy to do well. I also have a mild academic interest in the rise of socialism so I'm watching the HRC/Obama fiasco closely.

I also think it's great entertainment.
01-27-2008 , 11:09 AM
I like Canadians. Alot. I'm glad you follow our elections. My post was dumb and not well thought-out. As I stated, I think I was just feeling "territorial" about Barack. Dumb.
01-27-2008 , 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellytimber
And if we invade Canada right now he might vote for Obama.
FYP
01-27-2008 , 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbomom
I like Canadians. Alot. I'm glad you follow our elections. My post was dumb and not well thought-out. As I stated, I think I was just feeling "territorial" about Barack. Dumb.
Very, very nice being willing to admit when you're wrong.
01-27-2008 , 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbomom
yeah, I was dumb. it happens.
i esp like your 9-11 conspiracy posts.
01-27-2008 , 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan87
I like! (though I'm also a dirty canook)
01-27-2008 , 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KneeCo
Finally some good post-NH news for Obama, check out the newest national Rasmussen numbers!

newest Rasmusen national numbers.

HRC Obama Edwards

1/26/08 36% 33% 18%
1/25/08 41% 30% 16%
1/24/08 42% 30% 16%
1/23/08 42% 30% 15%
Sure enough, today a bounce back from yesterday's anomaly.
Hillary 40, Obama 31
01-27-2008 , 01:58 PM
Quote:
Senator Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., will endorse Barack Obama's presidential bid on Monday in Washington, a source close to Kennedy tells ABC News.
linky
01-27-2008 , 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConstantineX
I am probably one of the few people bothered by Obama's appeal to foreigners and pundits. It creates bad expectations when he comes into the presidency.

Many Africans look upon Obama's possible ascent as a chance for Blacks to wrest concessions from the U.S. government - basically utter tribalism as the situation in Kenya illustrates. Instead of the idea "let's work for the common good", many of them think of political power as "it's our fair turn to take from the Treasury." Obama's narrative as the African American leader of the future will only raise those expectations here and abroad.

Obama has too many narratives around him. "Change" is a popular one, but I would rather him use that as a cynical way to gain votes than actually have foreigners' expectations of US actions be raised, because that opens the door to exploitation and bitterness. Suppose that it is the will of the American people that with rising gas prices we can't afford the neo-Kyoto, Bali, so we choose of our sovereignty to impose a less stringest carbon tax than the Europeans do. Obama might be forced to account diplomatically to the various foreign constituencies pulling for his elections and overall hurt relations cold emerge.

No one really expects any real consensus change from Hillary. She will not be vastly different in substance and style from Bush, except perhaps in foreign policy. There will still be FISA wiretapping and powerful federal agents. This lowering of expectations might lead to a more familiar diplomatic territory that we can manage.
This is a small negative, but it is far outweighed by the positive. The Obama administration does not have to sign any treaty it does not want to. If he is a good president, his administration will be a good negotiator. He can always play good cop/bad cop with a Republican filibuster. As for Africa, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think any effect of Africa on the treasury will be a drop in the bucket.

On the other hand, when I talk to people from foreign countries, I hear about "American racism" a lot. They believe everything they see on TV, and they are not knowledgeable enough to interpret the language. Most African Americans will say that there is racism in America, but they are talking about a subtle kind of racism. Europeans and others will hear that word, and take it to mean that something very strong exists. An Obama Presidency would be a wakeup call to the rest of the world as to what this country really is.

Of course there are a lot of questions as to whether he'd be a good president, but imagewise, I think that outweighs the negatives.
01-27-2008 , 02:37 PM
Ted Kennedy who everyone assumed would stay out and be neutral...in fact he said he was going to do this when the Clintons asked for his endorsement at the start of the campaign...endorsed Obama today-that is pretty big among the party establishment.
01-27-2008 , 10:02 PM
It is huge. It also allows the media to continue its positive Obama coverage which is a big plus going into Feb 5.

He also got a slew of Paper endorsements, Rep. Xavier Becerra and Kansas Gov. Sebelius endorsement.
01-27-2008 , 10:23 PM
Lol Hillary goes against her pledge, that all the Dem candidates made, and is going to campaign in Florida. Obama should hammer her on this with the "you can't trust what she tells you/promises."

Also Gore would be huge prior to Super Tuesday..but Gore is probably to much of a pussy to actually come out and endorse him.
01-27-2008 , 10:26 PM
Re: How big Kennedy's endorsement is, I agree.

And Caroline Kennedy's fantastic Op-Ed in the Times is going to do more for Obama than the endorsement of the paper's editorial board did for Hillary imo (esp when paired with this scathing Hillary is the only way the GOP wins in Nov Frank Rich piece and a few other pieces that have shown up recently).

Also tomorrow Bush takes the stage for the state of the union and afterward Kathleen Sebelius (Governor of Kansas) is delivering the Dem response, giving her some nationally exposure, then on Tuesday she's endorsing Obama.

As long as the Clinton camp isn't successful in turning the Florida issue into a big thing about how (1) she's crushing there and would obv win it in Nov, and (2) ZOMG voter suppression from Obama why would he not want them seated;

Then the attention should be primarily on Obama on the Dem side until Thursday's debate.
01-27-2008 , 10:28 PM
That's technically not true. She is going to fly to Florida after the polls close and have an election night rally and go to fundraisers the next day (which is permitted). It doesn't count as campaigning because she's there after the election. She also went public with a pledge to try to get the FL and MI delegates seated in August. She clearly thinks that the delegates will eventually be seated and that she could pick up a few more delegates and positive articles on Tuesday.
01-27-2008 , 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KneeCo
Re: How big Kennedy's endorsement is, I agree.

And Caroline Kennedy's fantastic Op-Ed in the Times is going to do more for Obama than the endorsement of the paper's editorial board did for Hillary imo (esp when paired with this scathing Hillary is the only way the GOP wins in Nov Frank Rich piece and a few other pieces that have shown up recently).

Also tomorrow Bush takes the stage for the state of the union and afterward Kathleen Sebelius (Governor of Kansas) is delivering the Dem response, giving her some nationally exposure, then on Tuesday she's endorsing Obama.

As long as the Clinton camp isn't successful in turning the Florida issue into a big thing about how (1) she's crushing there and would obv win it in Nov, and (2) ZOMG voter suppression from Obama why would he not want them seated;

Then the attention should be primarily on Obama on the Dem side until Thursday's debate.
So why is Caroline Kennedy's endorsement of Obama exactly "fantastic"? Exactly what political authority does she have? I'll tell you the answer - none, just a heir to the dynastic line of the Kennedy's and their monarchic traditions. Invoking the ghost of JFK and oooh-ooh feel good feelings is allowed to trump policy considerations because she's the daughter of a Kennedy.

Here's the bottom line: voting for Obama on her endorsement is basically endorsing monarchists in the US and you might as well vote for the new royal line of Clinton, duchess of (New) York.
01-27-2008 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConstantineX
So why is Caroline Kennedy's endorsement of Obama exactly "fantastic"? Exactly what political authority does she have? I'll tell you the answer - none, just a heir to the dynastic line of the Kennedy's and their monarchic traditions. Invoking the ghost of JFK and oooh-ooh feel good feelings is allowed to trump policy considerations because she's the daughter of a Kennedy.

Here's the bottom line: voting for Obama on her endorsement is basically endorsing monarchists in the US and you might as well vote for the new royal line of Clinton, duchess of (New) York.

Caroline's endorsement adds gravitas to Obama, and allows other political heavyweights to feel comfortable in stepping up and supporting the new guy. Also, apparently it holds sway with the Latinos, who were primarily supporting Clinton.
01-27-2008 , 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConstantineX
So why is Caroline Kennedy's endorsement of Obama exactly "fantastic"? Exactly what political authority does she have? I'll tell you the answer - none, just a heir to the dynastic line of the Kennedy's and their monarchic traditions. Invoking the ghost of JFK and oooh-ooh feel good feelings is allowed to trump policy considerations because she's the daughter of a Kennedy.

Here's the bottom line: voting for Obama on her endorsement is basically endorsing monarchists in the US and you might as well vote for the new royal line of Clinton, duchess of (New) York.
QFT...except you left out that it will be extremely effective for him. Memories of Camelot are so clouded that people forget that his policies fall so far to the right of todays Democratic party that he would have been considered a moderate to conservative Republican. A tax cutter and defense hawk the martyr of today's Dem party. What a joke.

      
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