Obama vs. McCain: General Election Chatter For June - Page 26 - Politics and Economics

Two Plus Two Forums Other Topics Politics

Obama vs. McCain: General Election Chatter For June

...

Page 26 of 51

First

6 16 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 36 46

Last

Page 26 of 51

First

6 16 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 36 46

Last

06-15-2008 , 02:48 PM

#626

vezzy

grinder

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 430

Tax, tax, tax, tax

Under the radar, this week has shown one clear thing. Obama wants to raise taxes in a big way.

It will take weeks for all the details to get out and for people to realize what he has admitted this week, but it will become a bigger and bigger issue.

Obama's willingness to tax us all big time is going to be a big issue.

Start researching your comebacks now.

You go Barack "Fritz Mondale" Obama.

06-15-2008 , 02:51 PM

#627

daryn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 26,912

bdk3clash,

are you trying to say that since public opinion shows an overwhelming majority of voters favor restoring habeas corpus for guantanamo detainees, the judges' decision was correct?

i hope not, since that logic is flawed in more ways than one. first of all judges aren't supposed to rule according to popular opinion, they're supposed to interpret the constitution. secondly, didn't california supreme court justices recently rule that gay people should be allowed to get married even though the public of california is overwhelmingly against it? was that ruling right or wrong?

06-15-2008 , 03:12 PM

#628

NeedsMoreNuts

Tin Foil Prez

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 2,681

Quote:

Originally Posted by vezzy

Side-by-side comparison of McCain and Obama tax proposals.

I assume when you say "Obama's willingness to tax us all big time is going to be a big issue" you mean for those of us who make more than $227k/year, right?

Edit: When you say comeback, you're alluding to Hillary correct? You realize she's dropped off the face of the earth for the past week right? Like, people actually don't know where she is.

06-15-2008 , 03:17 PM

#629

SBR

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,625

Quote:

Originally Posted by daryn

He was responding to ITD (I think) claiming that since the majority of the public were against the decision and that this could be a big talking point for McCain (since Obama can't come out against the decision). bdk3clash arguing (using polls and data instead of made up crazy talk) that the public is actually in favor of the decision so in the context of the election this is either a neutral or an Obama positive.

06-15-2008 , 03:19 PM

#630

bdk3clash

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 6,559

Quote:

Originally Posted by daryn

bdk3clash,

are you trying to say that since public opinion shows an overwhelming majority of voters favor restoring habeas corpus for guantanamo detainees, the judges' decision was correct?

No.

06-15-2008 , 03:30 PM

#631

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedsMoreNuts

So he's no longer planning on reverting the bush tax cuts?

06-15-2008 , 03:35 PM

#632

vezzy

grinder

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 430

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedsMoreNuts

Your response is exactly what I expected the first response to be, a regurgitation of spin by a liberal group or liberal media intended to prop up Obama on the tax issue.

You need to dig deeper to find out what the reality is, not based on the false assumptions used to make Obama's massive tax hikes look good.

You can do better, and should, this massive Obama taxation issue won't be going away.

06-15-2008 , 03:38 PM

#633

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by vezzy

Your response is exactly what I expected the first response to be, a regurgitation of spin by a liberal group or liberal media intended to prop up Obama on the tax issue.

You need to dig deeper to find out the reality is, not based on the false assumptions used to make Obama's massive tax hikes look good.

You can do better, and should, this massive Obama taxation issue won't be going away.

Umm, lol? If the above link is factually wrong, then please provide a link to a reputable source that outlines the truth. Otherwise, you're the one who's regurgitating spin.

06-15-2008 , 04:15 PM

#634

Anzat

adept

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,141

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedsMoreNuts

Does this take into account his proposal to take off the $97K social security cap? It doesn't look like it does. That's my biggest concern.

06-15-2008 , 04:39 PM

#635

NeedsMoreNuts

Tin Foil Prez

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 2,681

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anzat

Does this take into account his proposal to take off the $97K social security cap? It doesn't look like it does. That's my biggest concern.

You could be right; I'm not sure. That's the most recent comparison I've been able to find. I saw one that was very similar a few days ago but can't seem to find it now.

Edit: Durr, it was the same one. I'm dumb. Here's the full analysis

Last edited by NeedsMoreNuts; 06-15-2008 at 04:45 PM.

06-15-2008 , 04:51 PM

#636

ErikTheDread

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 9,124

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthegreat

Yeah, that's not biased phrasing at all...

What's biased about it?

06-15-2008 , 04:55 PM

#637

ErikTheDread

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 9,124

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

So he's no longer planning on reverting the bush tax cuts?

There are probably something like 17 Democrats who do want to make the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy permanent.

06-15-2008 , 04:57 PM

#638

Feltstein

banned

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,277

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anzat

Does this take into account his proposal to take off the $97K social security cap? It doesn't look like it does. That's my biggest concern.

Nice post NeedsMore.

Anzat, the article clearly doesn't specify every tax type's increase or decrease, but it would be pretty shoddy journalism to leave out such a significant tax (SS). This wasn't sourced from Fox News, so my guess is that it's safe to assume that new SS caps were included.

06-15-2008 , 04:59 PM

#639

Feltstein

banned

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,277

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErikTheDread

There are probably something like 17 Democrats who do want to make the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy permanent.

Source with genuine link please.

06-15-2008 , 05:07 PM

#640

Reefypoopoo

banned

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 8,625

Quote:

The Tax Policy Center estimates that over 10 years, McCain's tax proposals could increase the national debt by as much as $4.5 trillion with interest, while Obama's could add as much as $3.3 trillion.

sources:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news...ion=2008061113
http://money.cnn.com/video/#/video/n...olicy.cnnmoney

06-15-2008 , 05:12 PM

#641

ErikTheDread

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 9,124

Since they're set to expire in 2010 unless specifically re-authorized, is there anyone who thinks there's any real chance that will happen? If by some chance McCain wins, there's a slim chance. If Obama wins, there's no way it'll happen.

06-15-2008 , 05:23 PM

#642

Feltstein

banned

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,277

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErikTheDread

Agreed. They were never intended to be permanent. Bush and his wacko cronies knew that it would be next to impossible to make wholesale theft permanent.

06-15-2008 , 05:26 PM

#643

istewart

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 15,910

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErikTheDread

What's biased about it?

Re:

Quote:

Restore habeas corpus rights for people held at Guantanamo – that is, instead of holding people indefinitely without charges, make the government show evidence in order to continue to hold them.

Leading question. I'm not sure how to better phrase it myself, since you have to take into consideration that Joe Average knows little to nothing about habeas corpus, but you might as well ask (re: Roe) "let all babies live, or let people kill ones they don't want?"

06-15-2008 , 05:28 PM

#644

ua1176

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 582

if neither candidate's tax plan has even a modicum of fiscal responsibility, and if both will increase the debt by several trillion, then does it really matter which plan we adopt?

06-15-2008 , 05:44 PM

#645

InTheDark

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,036

Quote:

Originally Posted by istewart

Re:

Leading question. I'm not sure how to better phrase it myself, since you have to take into consideration that Joe Average knows little to nothing about habeas corpus, but you might as well ask (re: Roe) "let all babies live, or let people kill ones they don't want?"

I look at it a little differently. If the average Joe doesn't know what habeas corpus means, he's likely not fit to be offering opinion on Constitutional law.

Ya can't get there from here.

06-15-2008 , 05:48 PM

#646

InTheDark

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,036

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdk3clash

....but public opinion polling and research is a well-established and accurate science.

It's an agenda driven cesspool. 'Accurate' is not a modifier anyone with honesty could apply.

Quote:

So far all available evidence (that I'm aware of) shows overwhelming support for this decision among likely voters...

And damn lucky we are that Constitutional law isn't decided by the rabble.

06-15-2008 , 05:55 PM

#647

NoLimitLeagues

old hand

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,672

Quote:

Originally Posted by istewart

i think you and Joe Average have a lot in common, lol

nothing wrong with the phrasing, imo

06-15-2008 , 05:57 PM

#648

Feltstein

banned

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,277

Quote:

Originally Posted by ua1176

if neither candidate's tax plan has even a modicum of fiscal responsibility, and if both will increase the debt by several trillion, then does it really matter which plan we adopt?

Call me partisan, but I'll take the plan that will add $1.2 trillion less, a reduction of 25%.

06-15-2008 , 06:04 PM

#649

InTheDark

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,036

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedsMoreNuts

I assume when you say "Obama's willingness to tax us all big time is going to be a big issue" you mean for those of us who make more than $227k/year, right?

Here's why Obama fans can go so horribly wrong. He's got no resume upon which to judge how well he'll follow through. No one in their right mind trusts a blank slate slimy pol to follow through on the good stuff. No, you'll get all the pain and misery promised along with an extra helping of tax hikes that 'we just couldn't avoid.' Count on it. 'Wealthy' will be redefined down to include you.

With McLame, at least you have his track record on taxes to judge what the future might hold. With the Obamessiah, you have no such idea.

06-15-2008 , 06:07 PM

#650

istewart

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 15,910

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoLimitLeagues

i think you and Joe Average have a lot in common, lol

nothing wrong with the phrasing, imo

I don't claim to know a lot about habeas corpus. The phrasing still sucks imo. You seriously don't think that question is designed to elicit a specific answer?

Page 26 of 51

First

6 16 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 36 46

Last

...

Page 26 of 51

First

6 16 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 36 46

Last