I don't think McCain <3's torture
gross misrepresentation of that program
you can go back to middle school english, b/c no one cares
If you say so...

1. He recognizes its value. <3 is hyperbole
2. Depends on who they are talking to, I would assume.
3. No, he didnt, judgement is an accepted alternate spelling in non-legal writing
4. He sure has a need for something. Seen the latest polls?

I know which views you're here to repeat; hopefully one day you have some thoughts of your own

Ummm... no, he needed Wright to get elected to the Senate in the first place, which he needed to win first in order to make a bid for POTUS. How this is not obvious to you is mind boggling. Obviously he will be able to have whatever elected office he wants in Illinois for the foreseeable up to term limits if he is not POTUS. How on Earth did you find out that Obama loves and respects Wright. Was your first clue when he said exactly that in his speech?

I think Obama did not throw Wright under the bus because it would have looked like an obvious political move and not won him any new support among whites and also anger some powerful blacks. Also I think what he said is close to how he really feels.

I'll suggest you call him Felix "Clinton delegate" N, every time you respond to him; I'll do it myself but i rarely respond to his posts anymore, he has some posts worthwhile one in a big while though

I don't see why what Wright has said is any different from white preachers, with close relations to politicians, who have said that Katrina or 9/11 was the result of God damming us for the actions of our country.

1. "value" of torture is just unacceptable to me, unless we can assure that only Jack Bauer is involved
2. FISA pretty directly violates the constitution, I think
3. technicality. no way he knows this
4. so the people that voted for Bush TWICE are suddenly the correct judge of Obama? His words speak for themselves. If the American people fail to recognize that he gets it, it is their own problem.

I think Huckabee could easily get his way onto some MSM type show and be quite successful.

THANK YOU. Skimming this thread, I was despairing more and more as nobody mentioned this obvious double standard. I am grateful that at least one person is paying at least a little attention.

Homework assignment for the rest of this thread: read up on Southern Baptist doctrine. Note that they believe you deserve to be tortured for eternity. Realize that the only reason you ignore this religious lunacy, while objecting to Rev. Wright's, is because of your acclimation to middle-class white(?) social norms. Raise your awareness, as well as your compassion for those in Trinity's pews, who are not any more blinded, but merely in a different social contexts and thus acclimated to different lunacies.

Edit - going further, I see felixthegreek and Max Raker also took up the good fight! Sexy.

Its not. They all should be "disowned" if they actually have close relations to sitting legistlators.

what does he get? What you dont get yet is that hes just another slick spin-doctor. A half-black Bill Clinton who will spin and parse words until you have no idea wtf he said. The difference is that Clinton had real power and executive experience, and wasnt just a prop of the Chicago political machine.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4480868&page=2

McCain actually wouldn't be that bad as a alternative to Obama.
He'd probably manage to get another 2-5K troops killed but really if you join the army you agreed to the possible consequences, so if they happen due to a massive hawk being in power than basically tough ****.
Doubtful McCain actually improves the average day to day lives of Americans over 4 years given I doubt he goes on to a second term. Probably makes little to no headway on the oil issue or anything else...if Romney is his VP then he probably loses to Clinton in 2012.
There is always the worry with McCain that he might do something overly aggressive in terms of foreign policy, but he'd have massive gridlock otherwise so not much would be accomplished.

MaxRaker: "I don't see why what Wright has said is any different from white preachers, with close relations to politicians, who have said that Katrina or 9/11 was the result of God damming us for the actions of our country."

Pretend this is an SAT test: would you still give the same answer?

lol I should remember this line when someone is being 100% intellectually dishonest.

nice one.

Obama is still the least worst possible choice in a field of terrible candidates.

But for anyone who has hopes for him as someone who brings "change", who "transcends race", I think this Wright issue should start casting serious doubts.

He's nothing more than a politician either way. Willing to either entertain shady characters for election, OR willing to throw them under a bus (and his grandma!) when the political temperature rises. He ain't changing **** in Washington.

I thought Bush and Falwell were buddies? Didn't he mention stories about confering with Falwell while campaigning?

I dont recall anyone asking Bush or any of the senators who cozy up with the religious right ever disowning any of these nutty preacher types.

zomg wow. talk about something being like, your opinion man. feel free not to vote for obama, i'm not trying to change your mind.

Anyway, would love to hear your opinion on MLK...slick spin doctor?

I just want to add something about this Jeremiah Wright deal. You guys keep politicizing it and calling him a racist. PLEASE. I'm not black but one of my best friends is, and when I take him to go play golf and 5 people drive by and yell ****** at him within the first 5 holes in 2006, it is kind of disheartening. Black America is A LOT different than white America and pretending like people should be held to the exact same standard is ludicrous.

What he said was wrong and no one is denying it, but he is a pissed off, old bitter black man. The same way I dismiss my 78 year old grandfathers characterizations of black people of having "an extra muscle" that helps them jump higher, calling rappers inherently dumb, or telling me to be really careful when I go play basketball at the Y, I dismiss Wright's comments as well.

These people grew up in a different time and have lingering feelings about race from a time when the inequalities in our society was much more visible than it is currently.

You dont get it. Nobody is holding Jeremiah Wright to any standard. He's just another ranting lunatic (who should have lost his Church's tax exemption long ago). The POTUS must be held to a different standard, and not empower the spouting of vitriol that poisons the congregation...especially the children exposed to it. It is no better than Hamas using Mickey Mouse to inspire hatred for Jews.

Good to see hysterical right wingers are keeping the hyperbole to a minimum on this.

You may think its hyperbolic, most voters don't. Guess who's opinion will count more?

So let me try to parse this -- most voters think ...that Barack Obama must be held to a different standard...and not "empower" the spouting of vitriol that poisons the congregation...especially because, his children were exposed to it...because what Jeremiah Wright does is equivalent to...Hamas using Mickey Mouse to inspire hatred for Jews.

Like I said, good thing you've managed to not let hysterics get the best of you.

One thing you can be sure about Copernicus... he speaks for most voters.

Well maybe not most, but it seems 15% of Dems and 36% of Independents think less favorably of Obama because of this "fiasco."

that's a big difference between that and most.

its additionally complicated that America is somewhat fickle. I wouldn't be surprised if 20% of the population changes sides every 2 weeks once it becomes a 2 party race.