Nah, I don't know if boots on the ground will help, and I'm not licking my lips for war. Of course, I don't identify as right wing either. I prefer to hear out arguments from all sides who care enough to offer them and have the best ideas hammered out of honest deliberation, not toxic name calling carried over from past political feuds.

Your preferences to not have your feelings hurt is not super interesting though; the rank Islamaphobia people trot out to war monger is relevant to point out, even if it gives you sads.

I'm not sure! Was hoping to find that rather than the clever gotcha's for global warming truthers, rapists, and xenophobic British dudes who can't talk to women.

ISIS attacks France -> We must secularize Saudi Arabia! doesn't really follow. Of course Saudi Arabia plays a role in rousing Sunni extremists, among other things, but it's not like we gotta figure out how to make Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar, etc, renounce Islam in order to prevent as many future attacks as possible. Yet, that's immediately where a lot of people go after such attacks. Get real.

That is what happens, too.

ISIS attack -> BOMB MECCA TOMORROW.

Like, what? Why?

That's nonsense.

Out of curiosity, what do you suggest should be done about ISIS? Just let them be?

It's also completely counter productive. I got to my wits end wasting my time talking to Louis Underpants Gnomes Win the Future Vs. ISIS plan that is:

1. liberals everywhere must admit ISIS is correct about Islam
2. good people must go to every country with Muslims and promote things, including a complete lack of tolerance for either their religion writ large or the bad but valid interpretations of it
3. ???
4. End terrorism

Left unspoken is what any of this finger-waving and lecturing about how terrible Islam is produces some unique and new outcomes.

Well secularizing is tons better than carpet bombing or nuking to hell. But I agree (although one can understand the thought). It's not so much secularizing as it is preventing the rousing of extremists. How do we as an outside presence perform this?

I don't agree that it is correct to dismiss military action. And such action is hardly the sphere of the right (or fake 'leftists'?). Again, whether such and such action is the right play is another story. It's definitely not some insane idea... because 9/11.

I take it you're confident enough with your grasp of the current situation, the various interpretations of Islam, what is or isn't a valid criticism, and what is or isn't a valid solution to the turmoil in the middle east to accurately call out the Islamaphobes.

^ It's easier to mock right wing mouthbreathers than to offer up solutions .... because there really aren't any good solutions. And at least this way you get to feel good about yourself

Actually here I was just calling out you, for clearly having your feelings hurt and demanding people stop hurting your feelings for very poor reasons. That part is obvious.

Sending duct tape, WD40 and adjustable wrenches is a good start.

There is no thing that can be done to prevent all such attacks. That's just pure fantasy. But, yeah, you can gather intel and stop as many as possible, you can hit them on the ground, all that kind of stuff. Because more attacks happen does not mean these efforts were futile, or caused them to occur at greater frequency. That's where I'll disagree with DVaut. But it also isn't just some problem with Islam in general.

You're too smart to believe any of this.

I'm unsure what the Western liberal view is on what to do in Syria. Helping all refugees is obviously a must, but what to do with the situation there?

Surely the West can't just help the lucky few who got away and let all the others suffer.
The war there is going on since 2011 and I doubt there are any 'good side'. Refugees are fleeing Assad as much as they are fleeing ISIS.

I'm not talking about stopping terrorism as much as helping a country stuck between a murdering dictator and an insane extremist group and how that can be done. I'm pretty sure stabilizing Syria, in a way that won't just help Assad dictate more quietly, would help the fight against terrorism a whole lot more than bombing Raqqa or help Putin's invasion force .

I don't have clever ideas. I do think scaling back our military presence in the coalition should be within the range of acceptable ideas. But whatever, I'm not a military tactician and I agree that the immediate aftermath of the US drawing back its airstrikes could be worse than maintaining the status quo.

Maybe we don't "let them be" -- we could freeze their assets (this has already happened; it could be done more comprehensively). We can use leverage with our allies to comprehensively address their own failings (I noted this was your best idea) so that the appeal of ISIS isn't as deep or doesn't resonate as much for young Muslims. It's doubtful that either of the above suggestions will be deeply effective, either, though. They're alternatives to doing nothing if we insist on doing something. But it might be true that the problem may be intractable for at least Americans to solve. So 'do less' should be on the table. That's not a demand for isolationism, just a recognition that all available actions could produce worse outcomes in this case.

What I am confident about is that a stern lecture and calling hundreds of millions of Muslims who are otherwise peaceful and have no desire to attack the west "radicals" and wagging a finger at them about Islam will not be effective. It's not a serious suggestion. It's comfort food for mouthbreathing idiots.

No, I absolutely and sincerely believe your stated philosophical distaste for people telling each other to shutup and stop being racist bigots is in fact you just being butthurt about being called a racist bigot. Full stop. Please believe me, I absolutely do believe this. I am not kidding at all. It's not a joke, I am being completely honest here.

He's a slightly more sophisticated Fly. In the end, he is all about small minded identity politics. When does he ever post anything that doesn't have something to do with identity politics? People like Dvaut and Fly argue like 5th graders and are best ignored.

Let them spew their grade school level garbage at each other.

Edit: Just look at his posts above. Butthurt? Are we 5 now? Dvaut, you should make some fart jokes to come off as more mature.

Best plan so far, lol. Feels like a McGuyver joke is here somewhere.

Yeah, this should be incredibly obvious, and trivial. Somehow, it isn't. I lived in Dearborn, MI for like 15 years, there were no intifadas, no suicide bombings, nothing. It's... amazing! Almost as if Islam isn't a problem in itself.

I see. So you're admitting you're not smart enough.

Who are you arguing against? Who is this targeted at on this forum? Do you want a soft pat on the head for **** I understood back in 2001?

*pats head*

Good for you, Dvaut. Good boy! You are so special!

Well, yeah, but in fairness it's also pretty easy to not be a bigoted mouthbreathing *******, and those guys don't seem to be offering any solutions either beyond putting collective blame on a billion peaceful Muslims.

I agree that maybe there aren't any good solutions to stopping terrorism without losing the essential freedoms that make our Western society the marvel of the world. There are, however, plenty of bad solutions, and demonizing the same moderate Muslims who ought to be our #1 asset in rooting out homegrown terrorism just is not a great plan.

Portion sizes are out of control, though. Lebanese restaurants there just keep piling on the hummus and pita like some kind of jihad against your blood-sugar levels.