From my cold, dead. hands! Except in Detroit and Chicago - Page 578 - Politics and Economics

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06-15-2014 , 11:03 AM

#14426

Money2Burn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 12,628

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

I think plenty of people in the civil rights movement defended themselves using firearms.

Is this number more or less than the number of people who were in the civil rights movement that were intimidated or victimized by people using guns?

06-15-2014 , 11:08 AM

#14427

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Money2Burn

Is this number more or less than the number of people who were in the civil rights movement that were intimidated or victimized by people using guns?

The government's guns were everywhere!

06-15-2014 , 11:19 AM

#14428

[Phill]

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 52,717

Technically I dont think it counts as government's guns when they take off their uniform at the end of the shift and put on their white hooded robes.

Also worth noting that you can remove the "modern era" clause in resisting an army. Just see the whiskey rebellion for an example. 500 armed men resisted tyranny, were subsequently crushed by overwhelming force.

06-15-2014 , 11:24 AM

#14429

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

1776 brit. Also, Kansas.

History is littered with people defending themselves with their guns, you just have to not be intentionally blind to see it.

06-15-2014 , 11:42 AM

#14430

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

1776 brit. Also, Kansas.

History is littered with people defending themselves with their guns, you just have to not be intentionally blind to see it.

Sure. People defend themselves. They don't defend "freedom" or some ****. They're not a guard against tyranny. Any and all huffing and puffing about using guns in defense of anything beyond oneself and one's own family is nothing more than that.

06-15-2014 , 11:43 AM

#14431

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Well no ****, guns are a tool, not a magical force that can only be used for good. However, you're talking about banning guns from the populace while claiming that guns have never been used to stand up for government tyranny. This is obviously untrue. You're essentially placing all of your faith in the US government. That's ****ed up.

06-15-2014 , 12:08 PM

#14432

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,508

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Guns are a weapon. Not a tool

06-15-2014 , 12:09 PM

#14433

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

All weapons are tools.

06-15-2014 , 12:49 PM

#14434

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,508

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

All weapons are tools.

Yes, tools for killing. Guns more so than most weapons. Calling them tools instead of weapons is downplaying the fact that that is what they are for.

06-15-2014 , 03:31 PM

#14435

Mcglaven

grinder

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 541

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

banning? I've only been following this thread for a few dozen pages but I haven't seen much, if any talk of an outright ban. This is one of the biggest problems on your side. Any suggestion of gun control, ammo limit, required training, etc. equals zomg they want to ban guns! There is a middle ground between no guns and guns for all, you just don't care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oyvey

Oy, the point is it can no longer be reasonably argued guns are in any way relevant wrt resistance to government oppression, as was part of the original intent of the second amendment. Unless you would like to expand our rights to include allowing citizens to arm themselves with even more powerful weapons like rocket launchers, F16s, tanks, and so on, you're really arguing a bunch of rednecks are going to protect the rest of us against the tyranny of Obama or some future oligarch. I don't know how they're gonna have any impact without resorting to suicide bombing and blowing up restaurants full of innocents, which is the path I'm afraid they're headed down.

This.

06-15-2014 , 03:41 PM

#14436

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

Yes, tools for killing. Guns more so than most weapons. Calling them tools instead of weapons is downplaying the fact that that is what they are for.

lol you just called them tools, after saying they weren't tools.

06-15-2014 , 03:42 PM

#14437

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcglaven

oh i'm sorry, you aren't familiar wookie's position. I am.

06-15-2014 , 03:45 PM

#14438

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

the zomg F16s is ****ing stupid too. There's a ton of space between the full out use of the military and a level of force that could negatively affect you.

06-15-2014 , 05:37 PM

#14439

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,508

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

lol you just called them tools, after saying they weren't tools.

Semnatikes strikes again. I'm saying to call them simply tools is ******ed. They are tools for killing, also known as weapons. Calling them simply tools is disingenuous and you know it

06-15-2014 , 06:20 PM

#14440

Money2Burn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 12,628

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

the zomg F16s is ****ing stupid too. There's a ton of space between the full out use of the military and a level of force that could negatively affect you.

People owning guns aren't preventing any of that. Oh wait, the racists that rallied to Cliven Bundy's cause did temporarily. LOL. Yeah, tyranny defended. Meanwhile the gun hoarders are actively pushing policy to restrict voting, to restrict healthcare and food access to our most vulnerable citizens and actively cutting environmental regulations. Good job team vigilant defenders of liberty.

06-15-2014 , 06:32 PM

#14441

EsotericPixie

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 216

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0Wn3Eey6dY

06-15-2014 , 06:56 PM

#14442

Huehuecoyotl

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,320

I suggest a compromise. Since guns were used in systematic terrorism from 1850 until 1965 but were also used by minorities during the Civil Rights Era, let's only give guns to minorities

06-15-2014 , 07:19 PM

#14443

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

Semnatikes strikes again. I'm saying to call them simply tools is ******ed. They are tools for killing, also known as weapons. Calling them simply tools is disingenuous and you know it

HAHAHA you're the one trying to play semantic games over what tool means. Jesus dude if you're going to play that game at least do it right.

06-15-2014 , 07:31 PM

#14444

LASJayhawk

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by Money2Burn

People owning guns aren't preventing any of that. Oh wait, the people that rallied to Cliven Bundy's cause did temporarily. LOL. Yeah, tyranny defended. Meanwhile the people who believe the constitution should mean something are actively pushing policy to restrict voting to people who have the right to vote, to restrict the government from making all the choices for your healthcare and Government paid for food access to only the people who need it and actively cutting environmental regulations that don't help the environment and can cause harm, like the ethanol in the gasoline . Good job team vigilant defenders of liberty.

FYP.

Your welcome

06-15-2014 , 07:32 PM

#14445

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Money2Burn

Again, you have to be completely butt ass ignorant of history to not be able to come up with examples of people fighting off the government or pseudo-governments in the US.

06-15-2014 , 07:44 PM

#14446

Huehuecoyotl

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,320

Whiskey rebellion

06-15-2014 , 07:44 PM

#14447

Huehuecoyotl

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,320

US Civil War

06-15-2014 , 07:45 PM

#14448

Money2Burn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 12,628

Quote:

Originally Posted by LASJayhawk

FYP.

Your welcome

For what? I already know the idiotic way the people you support frame issues to make what they are doing seem benign. It's really stupid.

06-15-2014 , 07:46 PM

#14449

[Phill]

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 52,717

Name one example where the people fought a functioning government and didnt have outside help to do so.

I cant think of one.

06-15-2014 , 07:47 PM

#14450

Huehuecoyotl

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,320

Though it is hard to find examples of someone's kid accidentally getting killed by someone's ill guarded use of the 1st amendment.

"Oh look daddy left his right to free expression out"

BOOM tragedy.

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