From my cold, dead. hands! Except in Detroit and Chicago - Page 321 - Politics and Economics

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01-15-2013 , 04:33 PM

#8001

NeBlis

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

Yes, absolutely proves you right:

NOW look at the FBI crime stats and realize your still wrong.

01-15-2013 , 04:33 PM

#8002

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

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Not all things call "assault weapons ban" are the same.

The NY bill for example is more restrictive than the 94 federal bill.

01-15-2013 , 04:34 PM

#8003

Case Closed

self-banned

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 19,112

Quote:

Originally Posted by gusmahler

Starting with something that's absolutely never going to happen is stupid. The reason the grabbers start with the AWB is because they think they can pass it, then move on to a handgun ban. They can't start with a handgun ban.

You're right. Just not enough political capital to protect US citizens from gun violence. Probably need to fix a few more USSC spots and we could get there. But that won't happen for 10+ years.

01-15-2013 , 04:37 PM

#8004

stakman1011

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Plus, Neblis, just because one law is bad doesn't mean all similar laws will be bad.

All that link says to me is that we need a stricter gun ban because our first one didn't have enough of an effect.

01-15-2013 , 04:37 PM

#8005

Oroku$aki

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Handgun ban will never fly, they're too convenient compared to having to carry a rifle everywhere.

01-15-2013 , 04:40 PM

#8006

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

Nothing meaningful is going to pass like ever, but Ive enjoyed reading all the trolling ITT from both sides, so thanks and keep it up.

01-15-2013 , 05:19 PM

#8007

gusmahler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

Not all things call "assault weapons ban" are the same.

The NY bill for example is more restrictive than the 94 federal bill.

It has the same basis as the 94 bill, though (the 5 criteria that define an assault weapon). Just restricts the definition more (only one criteria needed instead of two), gets rid of the grandfather clause, etc. If the 94 AWB is bad, so is the NY bill.

01-15-2013 , 05:24 PM

#8008

gusmahler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by LetsGambool

Nothing meaningful is going to pass like ever, but Ive enjoyed reading all the trolling ITT from both sides, so thanks and keep it up.

A nationwide AWB is not likely to pass. But statewide AWBs will be passing.

01-15-2013 , 05:25 PM

#8009

rjoefish

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gusmahler

It has the same basis as the 94 bill, though (the 5 criteria that define an assault weapon). Just restricts the definition more (only one criteria needed instead of two), gets rid of the grandfather clause, etc. If the 94 AWB is bad, so is the NY bill.

The bolded is a pretty huge distinction.
It also has more magazine restrictions, can't sell some things in state, background checks for nearly all sales, registration requirements, mental health reporting, storage requirements, stolen gun reporting requirements, etc. etc.

Last edited by rjoefish; 01-15-2013 at 05:31 PM.

01-15-2013 , 05:32 PM

#8010

[Phill]

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The grandfather clause and the definitions of what was banned was precisely why the 90s assault weapon ban was ineffective (edit, or at least imperfect). Removing and loosening those is what makes the NY ban likely to be a lot more effective. Along with the limit to 10 round magazines with no grandfather clause which is the best part of the entire bill (assuming what I read about it is correct).

Combine this with the likely proposal by Biden to tighten background checks and private sales and a lot of important things have been done in a very tight timeframe in a very combative legislative atmosphere.

01-15-2013 , 05:37 PM

#8011

pvn

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Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Phill]

The grandfather clause and the definitions of what was banned was precisely why the 90s assault weapon ban was ineffective (edit, or at least imperfect).

well that and the fact that a completely insignificant amount of crime is committed with assault rifles.

01-15-2013 , 05:37 PM

#8012

[Phill]

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Reuters is reporting the NY legislature just passed the gun control bill.

01-15-2013 , 05:44 PM

#8013

ForumWithdrawal

From my cold, dead. hands! Except in Detroit and Chicago

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 5,532

California has had the one feature definition since 1989. New (non grandfathered) ARs with more than one feature are still being legally sold in CA gun stores today and used at ranges all across the state.

There has been a 10 limit restriction on magazines for many years in CA also, but people are still legally acquiring 30 round magazines within the state that are not grandfathered.

01-15-2013 , 05:50 PM

#8014

rjoefish

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How are you legally acquiring something that's banned?

01-15-2013 , 05:56 PM

#8015

MrWookie

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Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForumWithdrawal

And California hasn't had another mass shooting with an assault rifle since.

01-15-2013 , 06:04 PM

#8016

ForumWithdrawal

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 5,532

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

And California hasn't had another mass shooting with an assault rifle since.

I'll admit, I don't know if you are trying to make a point, or being sarcastic.

01-15-2013 , 06:05 PM

#8017

gusmahler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by [Phill]

The grandfather clause and the definitions of what was banned was precisely why the 90s assault weapon ban was ineffective (edit, or at least imperfect). Removing and loosening those is what makes the NY ban likely to be a lot more effective. Along with the limit to 10 round magazines with no grandfather clause which is the best part of the entire bill (assuming what I read about it is correct).

The definition of what's banned is still nearly the same--it's banning guns based on cosmetic features.

01-15-2013 , 06:11 PM

#8018

rjoefish

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To say they're all cosmetic is lol ******ed.

01-15-2013 , 06:42 PM

#8019

pvn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

And California hasn't had another mass shooting with an assault rifle since.

yet CA is top 5 in per capita gun homicides.

01-15-2013 , 06:46 PM

#8020

rjoefish

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I blame pot dispensaries.

01-15-2013 , 06:46 PM

#8021

[Phill]

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

yet CA is top 5 in per capita gun homicides.

This is a bad route to go down if you like guns.

01-15-2013 , 07:08 PM

#8022

gusmahler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

To say they're all cosmetic is lol ******ed.

To say they are relevant to the lethality of the weapons is even more ******ed.

01-15-2013 , 07:20 PM

#8023

rjoefish

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Yeah, not sure how a grenade launcher could make a gun more lethal.

01-15-2013 , 07:24 PM

#8024

pvn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by [Phill]

This is a bad route to go down if you like guns.

Not really, just shows that if people are actually worried about "gun violence" (as they overtly say) then assault rifle bans are pretty horrible from a return on political capital spent basis.

01-15-2013 , 07:39 PM

#8025

gusmahler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

Yeah, not sure how a grenade launcher could make a gun more lethal.

Nice to point out the only restriction that does.

The other restrictions:

Telescoping stock--fixed stock is fine, but one that adjustable is EVIL.

Pistol grip--another ergonomic item that is EVIL

Bayonet mount--President Obama makes fun of bayonets during debates, yet the presence of one makes a gun EVIL.

Threaded flash suppressor--note that welded flash suppressors are fine, just not threaded ones

Grenade launchers--OK, you got me here. How many mass shooting involve using grenade launchers attached to the bottom of an AR-15?

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