If this were the case there would be some people permitted to carry anthrax spray. I am pretty sure all of the gun control people want to divide society into people that are permitted to have guns and people that are not permitted to have guns.

Because I think a lot of gun owners are bordering on ******ed. I know a lot of gun owners and I would prefer that a lot of them did not own guns.

Gun ownership is a prisoner's dilemma, we would be better off if there were no guns, but individually a person can be better off owning a gun.

There are lots of examples of this in society. Some people are permitted to fly a plane, some aren't. Some are allowed to operate industrial machinery, others are not.

Planes & industrial machinery are dangerous when operated by some people. As are guns.

Note: I think there is an important distinction to be made between 'the right to defend oneself' and 'the right to defend oneself with a gun', one does not necessarily imply the other.

How did I miss this? Lol.

The Patriot Act didn't create the subpoena, lol.

So why do many people want to determine who can operate a gun based on their employer rather than through licensing and education?

I think the right to defend oneself does imply the right to defend oneself with a gun. The right to defend oneself implies the right to defend oneself efficiently.

But we still can't ban assault rifles because freedom something something shoot the drones out of the sky. Wolverines!

See a prison is a good microcosm for a test case. Since they currently have a fair amount of violence committed within the population with stabbing weapons and whatnot, what we should do is take one prison and arm every inmate with a gun, then step back and see what happens. If the violence goes down, then we have clearly proven that more guns=less gun violence. If it goes up, then we've shown the opposite.

Now, anyone want to place some bets on how that would go?

They'll need more than that to offset the ones dying dying/getting dementia every day.

The prisoner on prisoner violence would go down. A prison population is one that the government want to keeps under control, so they lock them in cages and deny them the means to escape.

Full ******

Sure they were glorious, they're fake.

Perhaps that's true, but the prisoner on prisoner homicide would go up.

Gosh, I wonder why that is? Could it be because...

Should the negative aspects which are associated with widespread gun ownership not factor into that efficiency calculation?

No it wouldn't. Prisoner on guard violence and homicide would go up and the number of escapes would go up.

lol we'll have to agree to disagree.

It did create the ability to hijack various telecommunications companies to spy for the us.

Saw a Louis Theroux documentary about a high security prison in florida, they were continually hospitalising each other over things like who got to sleep in the top bunk, soap, cookies etc. Mostly beatings, but also the occasional stabbing.

Violence would in fact go down because 4/5 of them would be dead within the month.

A prison is the perfect example of what I have been trying to get at. How are weapons handled in prison, and more importantly, why?

For those of you who haven't made license plates in Folsom prison, it works like this... no weapons for inmates, non-guard employees, vendors or visitors, only very limited and specific non-lethal weapons for guards. And in case you don't know... the entrances to the gun towers are always only from the outside of the prison walls.

Or, if you never have seen a dude taken to a jail, it typically works like this... cop pulls up and then gets out of his car and locks his gun in the trunk. Only then does he take the perp out of the back of the car, and hand him over to the jailers.

In both cases cop management has decided to implement a ZOMG WF KZ ZOMG weapons quarantine policy. In both cases cop management has decided to take lethal weapons out of the hands of the professional 'good guys'. And sure, it is most certainly true that if any 'bad guy' inmate/vendor/visitor/non-security employee/guard is able to break that quarantine they'll have that advantage. But this is true in all quarantine situations, including those that don't involve weapons.

It's always a matter of safety trade-offs. So... either all cop management are completely wrong-headed, have been for decades, and their policies of creating these weapon quarantine zones, and of taking the guns out of the guard's hands, are actually really counter-productive IRL... or the whole ZOMG WF KZ ZOMG meme is a whole buncha crap... amirite??

What I mean by smart technology being where the two positions can merge is that gun owners supposedly want only capable, technically proficient users to handle guns and others want guns to be controlled to make sure that they don't fall into the wrong hands. Smart technology would make it more likely that only people who have been trained, subjected to background checks, CCW permits, whatever would be able to actually fire the gun, as opposed to the legal gun owner's mentally deranged son killing the owner and using the weapons on kindergartners.

Now that comes with the trade off that not just anyone can use the gun even other proficient users, but that's a trade off that is feasible, even if you don't like it.

If it is, it needs to be done in an honest way. Comparing a society that now has a gun band that was less violent than ours prior to the gun ban does not show that the gun ban made it less violent.

Maybe as you hinted above the solution is to regulate them similar to airplanes and industrial machines.

Itt society is modeled after a prison unironically, good stuff.

They also have the area very secure so guns can't (or very rarely) get in. I think a majority would agree that we would be better off without guns. The issue gets murkier when you start talking about doing away with guns when other people still have guns.

ZOMG no. Seriously, this has gotta be the most stupid thing I've ever heard. In my whole ******ed life. How could you even imagine something like this to be true?

If this is what gun-nuts truly believe... it's simply 'game over' trying to talk sense to them.

Ummm, it wasn't completely serious. All I was saying is if you give prisoners guns they would use them to leave the prison, not to kill other prisoners.