yikes

Wait, are you talking about Sandy Hook Elementary School?

LOL

Fwiw I think the most likely option, like 90%+, is he just didnt see the concealed carry guy.

Then again my only point of reference is not seeing the zombie crawling towards me out of my field of aim because I only shot off its legs with the shotgun and not its head while playing Dead Trigger in a particularly intensive target rich point in a mission.

For CCW carry having a herd effect, similar to vaccination - I would agree it is a factor, but at the same time we dont have the stats to hand what percent that becomes a factor, whether that just turns school shootings into McDonalds shootings, and we dont have stats on whether you can reach that percentage and how many other deaths and injuries you will have when reaching that CCW percent for it to be an effective deterrent.

We know Columbine had an armed guard when its massacre happened and most mass shootings take place with a mentality where the shooter expects to die and just wants to "go out in a blaze of glory" taking as many victims with him so I am unsure how effective it even is if CCW's percentage is really high. You cannot really apply the logic of cool thinking to it.

I think another way to look at this is to just consider what percent of people as a whole concealed carry - it just isnt a large amount, not even close, so even assuming a 1:1 I just cannot see how anyone could logically argue this as a solution. At least while arguing against magazine limitations and restrictions on ownership with mandatory training and psych examinations.

The claim being advanced is that this mass shooter fits the profile of someone who planned to kill a bunch of people and then take his own life. Getting in a gun fight and possibly being killed by someone else wasn't part of the plan. Of the mass shootings of the past 13 years, to my knowledge only the Colombine shooters fired any shots at the police, hitting no one and not getting into a sustained gunfight. There's no question that their intention all along was to end their shooting by suicide. There is such a thing as "suicide by cop," but that's not the profile for these mass shooters.

Its offensive to talk about if the principle would have stopped Lanza? She definitely could have stopped him if she was armed. I'm not advocating anyone has to be armed but I am sure there are teachers out there that would voluntarily train and arm themselves to protect their children.

Like someone else noted, just the fact that there could be armed teachers could very well be a deterrent based on how quickly these guys off themselves when they face opposition, which leads to the point of the CCW carrier in the mall.

The shooter saw him and soon after takes his own life just like most the other mass shooters have done when they know police are about to come in or take them out. But no he definitely was not effected by the CCW carrier, thats confirmed.

Lastly everyone talks about how irresponsible these CCW carriers must be with no training. The CCW carrier does what he is suppose to and what is responsible by not shooting because there was an innocent person in his line of fire and you all LOL what a joke CCW is he didnt even shoot. If he shoots you all want to get rid of CCW because he either shot an innocent person or could have. Cant win with you anti gun nuts.

That seems low for total cost. Even at only one officer per school, which is ridiculously low to accomplish the purported goal, the cost per officer would have to be about $40K/year total, which can't possibly cover salary plus benefits plus overhead plus management.

Also, I hadn't done much other than read the headline about the NRA statement, but reading further I see that they believe that they can supplement it with armed in-school NRA volunteers.

So their proposal is to put random volunteer schlubs into schools, who have nothing better to do with their time other than spending all day in a building full of children, for no pay, packing heat. Yeah, sounds like a winner.

Mixed feelings on the database or mixed feelings on selling guns to the mentally ill?

Keep in mind you are in favour of armed guards in schools which absolutely didnt work in Columbine so you have ground to make up here if you dont want to just resign yourself to being the new LirvA.

Saying she could have done so if she was armed whilst ignoring the near certainty she wouldnt have been armed if it were legal and how teachers in general do not overlap strongly with gun ownership is intellectually dishonest.

Basically the argument is no different to "hey, if magic forcefields were in the school and then they used magic transporters to get all the kids to safety as soon as someone raised an alarm then the shooting would have ended before it begun" is equally valid because you never know maybe the tech from Star Trek is just hanging out in a basement in Area 51.

Unless you are forcing teachers to carry or unless you know it will be effective as a deterrent with an extremely low carry percent you are not arguing in favour of stopping school shootings. You are in the wrong thread.

yeah the point of the 'if the X was armed this could have been prevented" is more just that there was time for an armed good person to do something to stop this. it's not like the shooter walked in the building and 26 people died instantly. it could have been prevented but the anti-gun crowd had their way and disarmed everyone in that school except the evil psychopath.

i LOVE that that is their stated goal. "only evil psychopaths will have guns and we'll all be safer!"

mixed feelings on the government decided people aren't fit to own weapons. lol @ you for thinking anyone cares what you think about them.

I'D BE HONORED TO BE THE NEW LIRVA

That's all I have now and I'm completely fine with that.

Or I can use a baseball bat or a knife or something else...

For details about the role of the sheriff's deputy assigned to Columbine, see http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/col...UTIES_TEXT.htm. He was outside in the parking lot eating lunch in his car when the shooting began, and like the rest of the police, he never entered the school until after the shooters had committed suicide. He did fire a few shots at Harris while Harris was outside, but from 60 yards away.

I'm by no means saying that it's a slam-dunk that allowing CCW by teachers will stop all of these events; but I don't see it hurting. I definitely haven't been convinced by the "what if the gun falls out of the holster!" concerns.

CCW rates vary from state to state, and arguably this is a matter where states should have leeway to craft what they think will work best.

I haven't argued against any of those other things, myself, but I'm doubtful about how effective some of them (like AWB and magazine restrictions) will be. My view is that the kinds of restrictions that are politically possible--but which fall way short of Australia's gun control--just won't be effective for stopping these kinds of incidents. I think allowing CCW by teachers might be an effective deterrent.

The argument is not that all CCWs are irresponsible, its that its almost impossible to know which ones are and which ones aren't, and that's a hell of a roulette wheel to spin for something that may

A. Have any effect at all
or
B. Make things worse

This is cute, way to take the least likely of the concerns I listed and try to prop it up as the entire argument

fair and balanced!

How long will it take for mosher to make a gimmick account for his gimmick account? He's helping the cause.

Come on, I'm entitled to a little snarkiness after 20 calm, reasonably rational posts.

I won't begrudge you that. I do feel the need to check you on it, though, because I'd rather not have someone just coming in thinking that that is the strongest argument for the position of... um... what do we even call it "not more concealed carry"?

How did this evil psychopath get his guns, exactly?

lol tsao you already have been for quite awhile

So, uh, even the NRA can't really think posting armed people in schools will do anything, right?

1. Is the guard going to raise his gun at everyone that enters the area or walks toward him? Because if not it seems pretty likely that the 1/1,000,000 massacre perpetrator could just walk up to the guard and shoot him due to the element of surprise, then continue on with their rampage.

2. Is there going to be an armed guard at every door to every school? Because if not why couldn't a shooter shoot his way in then lock himself in a classroom with tons of kids? Or lock himself in, wait for the guard, shoot the guard then continue on?

Also, I'm sure the NRA and its members support higher taxes to pay for this, right?

CT shooter Stole them.

riverman part of the only way to pay for things is to increase taxes club

So in previous posts I've gotten the BUT THAT WOULDN'T HAVE STOPPED THIS GUY treatment for suggesting things like more/better background checks and banning certain types of ammunition. Now that's a ******ed way to look at things, but OK, lets play that game! The 'cops at every school' thing will not work, would not have stopped this guy, and has the added disadvantage of being really ****ing expensive. LOL gun nuts.

Tsao's plan is for all the gun manufacturers to just voluntarily give schools across the US guns because, you know, reputation points.

lol what types of ammunition do you want to ban? i must have missed that post.

is it the heat seeking bullets??

lol trolly has never heard of a donation before.

excellent!