I have to correct "regular" people's "slips" from time to time. They have some racist tendencies, but extremists, definitely not. It may be on some verbal level when they "aren't thinking". I'm a bit afraid it shows up in action also, probably it does to some extent. I'm trying to prevent bad with correcting also some verbal things many think are "innocent". And I have to do it again and again, finally it pays out.

And the world has yet again become a notch better than it would have been without my action. That idea largely makes me tick.

You can have extremely impolite disagreement without writing someone off.

I agree that is highly repugnant thing to believe or say. I hate that sort of view even without the hurricane.

I mean, this is a cute theory and all, but WV is also a hotbed of anti-black racists, and there are plenty of black people in WV.

Racists can change, but they have to accept that they are racists first. You don't help an alcoholic by saying they aren't a real serious alcoholic because they don't drink before noon.

Integration being associated with and even causing less racism is a thing.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.indep...506.html%3famp

Yeah, DVaut many times has shared links demonstrating that Trump's support is highest in the most racially segregated areas of the country. The 2010 census has WV at ~93% white.

https://www.census.gov/2010census/po...text.php?fl=54

The US as a whole, according to the 2010 census, is only 63% white.

https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/...c2010br-02.pdf

The above is the crux of why Baja failed on chezlaw's watch. It all circles back to the odious BruceZ and Secret Heart R-word-ism.

The use of the word 'extremist' here is just another way of yapping about Secret Heart R-word-ism.

Peeps who harbor personal racial animus in their secret inner hearts are the 'extremists'. From there, the song-&-dance is the same: we'll be told only extremists can be called the r-word... so if there are no extremists there is no r-word-ism. We'll be told calling someone a r-word-ist, who isn't an extremist, be it a SN or a public figure, is "attacking the arguer". Oh noes, we can't have that kinda incivility in our forums... because, we'll be told, incivility is always necessarily counterproductive to the Librulz cause.

I even agree with this, but it doesn't seem to be the end of the story.

It's nothing to do with the secret heart thingy. This is the small box thingy.

For example. Not everyone who has some racists beliefs and attitudes is remotely close to being a nazi.

Congrats on reading his post, saying he's wrong, and then proving him exactly right.

It's not, of course.

Institutional R-word-ism isn't caused by personal flaws in some peeps secret inner hearts. It's caused by violently imposed hierarchical power structures. No amount of doing "therapy" on poor white folk is ever going to change those power structures. We need to stop worrying about doing "therapy" upon the least powerful, and start taking direct action upon the most powerful.

? he seems to think that extremists is something to do with secret heart.

In fact it's independent of the secret heart thingy, it has to do with how extreme their beliefs and attitudes are.

It's also caused by a culture of racism in some workplaces, where the herd mentality of hating other groups takes over and new joiners are immediately pressured into conforming.

Absolutely. It's why I argue for positive discrimination - particularly in senior and powerful positions.

In this regard, changing attitudes in the poorer people matters mostly because they vote. The politics of that is mostly not being divisive towards them and addressing genuine economic and political issues.

?

If someone is arguing for genocide then they are very extreme. The secret heart thingy is besides the point.

Not everyone who voted trump is as extreme as those who are in the KKK. Again nothing to do with the secret heart thingy.

3.5% of the population of WV is black, which isn't even close to being representative of the US population.

You also need to look to see if that 3.5% are part of the same community as the racists.

I assume WV is quite large and the distributions are not uniform.

WV is 3.6% black, so I wouldn't say there were plenty. It's a very white state, although not in the top 10 for smallest percentage of population that is African-American. Segregation certainly isn't the only problem, but most social scientists I'm familiar with who study racial inequality consider it one of the largest factors.

Re: extremists and racists and the distinction, I think shame trolley makes a good point about institutions, but it's like it would also be helpful to have a word that meant something like "prejudiced, ignorant, and holding to a perspective which, in the aggregate, helps to sustain an unjust status quo."

What I mean is that I think ST is right that racial inequality isn't fixed by convincing some lone West Virginian to change his answers to racial prejudice questions on the general social survey. Institutional problems require institutional changes. But I think it's also true that the maintenance of the mainstream racial ideology explains why it's so hard to make institutional changes. There is a relation between the way people understand these issues and the larger social structures. I think it is true both that there are meaningful distinctions between mainstream racial ideology -- which is still quite prejudicial -- and the ideology of various extremist groups like the KKK, but also that racial ideology is politically relevant, and the problems don't reduce entirely to the problem of power structure. Power structures and ideologies reinforce each other. I'm not sure how you effectively change the one without changing the other.

Note that this is a different question from whether or not 2+2 should be worried about hosting discussions on this topic...

With pretty much any other Politard, I'd say he's just missing the point. However, as I've spewed before, chezlaw's a different kinda cat. He's deflecting.

OK, how about we look at the blackest states. I'm sure we'll find bastions of racial equality.

The problem with this is that the original claim was about segregation, which is at a neighborhood level, not a state-by-state level. States with a large black population are still highly segregated.

That's not the case Shame.

Being a member of the KKK (or not) is nothing to do with the secret heart thingy. If you put KKK members in the same box as everybody else who has some racist views then that's different to the secret heart thingy.

You really disagree with that?

Hahahahhahahahahahahhhhahahahah


*gasp*


Hahahahahaahhahahahahahahhahahahahha


OH NOW WHAT PEOPLE ARGUE FOR IS SUFFICIENT TO BRAND THEM AS EXTREME?!