How is this kind of idiocy still alive nearly a year after the election, where liberal impoliteness drove these morons into the hands of Donald ****ing Trump? Shut up.

Maybe we should list the reasons for the Trump fiasco itt?

Things that affect voting:
Saying mean things to white people

Things that don't affect voting:
Calling women feminazis
Saying mean things to black people
Saying mean things to Muslims
Saying mean things to gay people
Calling Antifa terrorists
Calling BLM terrorists
Saying mean things about Occupy Wallstreet
Suggesting violence against protestors
...

That is to long of a list since everything anyone says is the reason trump got elected.

Right, calling people who wave swastika flags "Nazis," drove otherwise decent people to Donald Trump, but calling people Feminazis because maybe women should be equally represented in higher paying careers, didn't do ****.

The heights of irony is unbeatable.

Lurker's perspective:

I imagine anyone reading these forums with an open mind watching FlyWF and people like him owning conservatives over and over again is more likely to reevaluate his/her politics than if Fly and others had engaged politely and legitimized those views. If your ideas are not worthy of respect, they shouldn't be respected.

I'm not great with the words, which is why I lurk, but I keep wanting to make this post every time I see someone saying the left should be more polite. I used to identify as a conservative, and chances are decent I still would if not for 2p2. Vicarious shame, maybe you could call it. It worked.

Disclaimer: I'm only speaking to the general point about politeness, not giving a blanket defense of every mean thing Fly has ever said. I know no one would care since I'm only a lurker, but just saying.

I think reason will win.

Problem with almost Trump-like hate talking is it may stick. Even if the agenda is basically liberal.

What he said. I lurked for a long time and should probably still post less lol. The thing is all these people start with the argument that "we" need to be nice to get people on "our" side. Then you look at their posting history or posts and they never espouse any liberal view like ever.

ETA: my views developed not because of tone but recognizing which sides lie the most. Republicans almost always are straight up lying.

Prana, bad faith arguments and general lying on the right definitely made a difference too. Not even sure how to untangle all that though. Edit: I mean calling out bad-faith arguments and lies is not very polite. A lot of stuff that would have worked on me got exposed by those rude leftists.

And I think we're headed for another dark age where intelligence is assaulted by the new Know Nothing party of Trump. GOP has been angling for that for quite a while. The new breed of republican is desperate for a leader who will lie blatantly to them, so long as it's the lie they want to hear.

There are countless *******s on the internet on both sides of the aisle. Blaming mean people on one side of the aisle for getting the opposition elected is completely ridiculous.

This is especially true when you consider that
(a) ~nobody acts like that off the internet
thus
(b) in order to be exposed to it, you would have to be in the relatively small subset of people who discuss politics on the internet regularly
and
(c) in order for it to matter you would have to
(i) be unsure of your voting action
(ii) be willing to change your voting action purely to annoy some ******* on the internet, while knowing that your voting action has a ~0 change of affecting the result


...

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is not why Trump got elected.

Nobody is "behaving badly" here on 2+2 when they aren't being sanctioned by the mods. So that's a complete non-starter. When peeps talk about "ends" and "means" they aren't talking about the relative politeness levels of yapping... they are talking about IRL actions out IRL. So that's a complete non-starter too.

The other thing that should be blindingly obvious, to all who haven't been partaking of the alt-right-koolaid, is this... there ain't no -either/or- going on here. A blinking warning sign of astroturfed propaganda is out-of-the-blue, and patently absurd, Manichaeism. This is a perfect example.

Look at noodle's list. The *******s on the right are being *******s to people who wouldn't have voted for Trump anyway.

I think this partly reflects a strength of the left, by the way. They are more fractured and far more willing to go after their own. This seems like a major reason you don't have weird birther level nonsense gaining traction among liberals.

But it doesn't just exist on the internet. There is a reason that all the polls were wrong. People are afraid (IRL) to talk about certain issues, admit to holding certain positions or voting for certain candidates.

I'll also point out that I wouldn't claim that it's the only reason trump won but the contempt for the very people who left the party en masse for the candidate who made empty promises to them seems like a factor.

This is obviously disingenuous but taken at face value this dude, literally one page ago, was defending TS and Bruce as good dudes just making analytical failures.

I'm the well behaved one! Civility vs. decency is an easy ****ing call for most people.

Can you provide one solitary ****ing example of a person who would've voted for Clinton but was driven to Donald Trump by excessive asterisks in my ****ing posts?


The polls weren't wrong. They got some states wrong, but on the whole they were accurate. There was no shy Tory effect, Dem turnout just got ****ing cratered in the Rust Belt.

Also, when you say "admit to holding certain positions", WE ALL KNOW you mean "hating minorities", but you're so casually dishonest you abstract that by reflex. Because you hold some of those positions yourself, and YOU are the one who is afraid to admit it. (but also, because of course, you have a nice stack of Milo-defending posts in Chezfront)

People didn't leave the party en masse.

Has anyone actually claimed that anywhere?

I guess this should have been foreseeable, given that the GOP is the party of company managers.

What, that decent people only voted for Donald Trump because they don't like it when people call out racism? Yes, all the time.

This posits the existence of a significant class of people that were not going to vote for Trump but were then swayed to vote for him by mean liberals on the internet. I'm extremely skeptical this class exists in large numbers.

As Fly pointed out, the polls weren't any more wrong than they usually are.

And even if they were, so what? You've changed your argument from "Mean liberals made people vote for Trump" to "Mean liberals made the polls wrong".

Yeah, I mean the contempt wasn't because Trump was making empty promises. That's fairly standard. The contempt was because of what those empty promises were.

Someone who wanted a Muslim ban and a wall on the border wasn't going to vote for Hillary if only someone hadn't been mean to him. Come on.

In general, this kinda projection is ubiquitous.

The peeps who whine most about incivility are the least civil. The peeps who whine most incoherently about emotions are the most emotional. The peeps who whine about the illogical aren't logical at all. The peeps who whine about 'special snowflakes' most need their own 'safe-spaces' etc/etc.

Odi Award winner BruceZ was never polite to us Politards. In fact, when he mildly abused his mod powers, he marginally disrespected our whole pathetic and pointless virtual community. OTOH, ToothSayer is polite. IMO that's way more creepy.

One if the 7.0 regs popped up in the book thread in The Lounge. Of course it's a book about making the world a safe place for the children of the white race.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ostcount=16524

I'm fairly certain that it isn't ubiquitous outside of people who have some sort of mental disturbance.

I whine quite a bit about people putting ketchup on hotdogs and how horrible candy corn is, but that doesn't mean that I have some deep-seated desire to put ketchup on hotdogs or that I secretly eat candy corn.

LOL no. I didn't mean "peeps that whine want what they're whining about" in general, in general. I meant in particular to the PC Police Run Amok genre which we were chatting about.

Revisit the first paragraph of my post.