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05-17-2011 , 02:33 PM
If I was in charge with a magic wand, as a bare minimum, I'd make it so that in order to use a SWAT team the police would have to obtain a special warrant showing a clear and present danger. The standards to meet would be pretty damn high as well.
05-17-2011 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys
If I was in charge with a magic wand, as a bare minimum, I'd make it so that in order to use a SWAT team the police would have to obtain a special warrant showing a clear and present danger. The standards to meet would be pretty damn high as well.
This could be a bit results oriented. Liberal use of SWAT teams and power asymmetry might save a lot of lives overall. Of course in almost all of these cases they should make a ton of noise and leave no doubt that they are SWAT except for really rare situations.
05-17-2011 , 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
This could be a bit results oriented. Liberal use of SWAT teams and power asymmetry might save a lot of lives overall. Of course in almost all of these cases they should make a ton of noise and leave no doubt that they are SWAT except for really rare situations.
Possibly, but before someone goes charging in with guns they should meet a standard much higher than possibly.
05-17-2011 , 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dids
*- this is obviously where judgement becomes key, and boy howdy is the avg judgement of your average law enforcement official seem to be lacking.
The solution is: do not put people who lack judgement into situations where good judgement is critical / have people with good judgement in situations where good judgement is critical.

Stop carrying the water for police murder.
05-17-2011 , 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Phill]
You are unbelievably terrible. You managed to find a story of people stealing stuff and link it to the downfall of society.
"Managed to find?" ... LOL.... You can't look at the regional headlines anymore without stumbling all over stories just like this. But each time, cornucopians laugh the realities off, and refuse to acknowledge the trend overall.

Whether its a bankrupt federal government, or petty theft at the main st. level for trade goods. ... It's the same condition.



Quote:
Originally Posted by [Phill]
How the hell did Stu get banished from this forum when you get to post here still?
Irony.

Last edited by ElliotR; 05-18-2011 at 12:01 AM.
05-17-2011 , 02:58 PM
End the ****ing drug war.
05-17-2011 , 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKSpartan
End the ****ing drug war.
^ this ^
05-17-2011 , 03:08 PM
God. Fly yells at you guys because any hint of nuance is totally wasted. I phrased everything I said pretty carefully and I'm "carrying the water for police murder".
05-17-2011 , 03:14 PM
lumping me in with riverfenix while complaining of people missing nuance.... GOLD JERRY GOLD!
05-17-2011 , 03:15 PM
In my inbox today:

Quote:
It has begun...

All Americans, please refuse these coins
!

This simple action will make a strong statement.


Please help do this.. Refuse to accept these when they are handed to you.


I received one from the Post Office as change and I asked for a dollar bill instead.


The lady just smiled and said 'way to go' , so she had read this e -mail.


Please help out..our world is in enough trouble without this too!!!!!


U.S.Government to Release New Dollar Coins


You guessed it
'IN GOD WE TRUST' IS GONE!!!
If ever there was a reason to boycott something, THIS IS IT!!!!

DO NOT ACCEPT THE NEW DOLLAR COINS AS CHANGE

Together we can force them out of circulation..



Please send to all on your mailing list
05-17-2011 , 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dids
God. Fly yells at you guys because any hint of nuance is totally wasted. I phrased everything I said pretty carefully and I'm "carrying the water for police murder".
Welcome to the politics forum, where nuance never stands in the way of a good rant.
05-17-2011 , 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dids
ikes, you talk about creating a "deadly situation for no good reason"

Say you're going to raid a drug warehouse, let's all just imagine it's the stash house they take in S1 of the Wire. You know there's a ton of people in there with guns. You know they've used these guns in the commission of violent crimes.

When attempt to take possession of that house, is it acceptable to use a SWAT team?

If in the course of that attempt, you feel your life is threatened*, is it OK to respond with force?

You keep trying to work this "drugs=non-violent" thing, and while I think we'd all agree that drug crime should ideally be dealt with non-violently, it's naive to suggest that that could always be the case here.

It seems like plenty of mistakes where made here, and maybe one of them was approaching the case in such a way that you ended up with a SWAT team taking a door, but can't you agree that at some point that's going to be an unavoidable consequence of a drug investigation?

*- this is obviously where judgement becomes key, and boy howdy is the avg judgement of your average law enforcement official seem to be lacking.
Dids, why are some drug dealers violent, while others (for example, booze or tobacco dealers) non-violent?
05-17-2011 , 03:28 PM
qdmcg- http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/dollarcoin.asp

I predict you will be VERY surprised by what you find at that link. I'm really glad DVaut mentioned the plen-T-plaint concept, it's really quite helpful when trying to understand why something like this would get emailed around for 4 years when literally anyone with access to the coin would be able to determine its falsehood.

P.S. A fun and potentially profitable game would be asking Tea Party types to guess how long "In God We Trust" has been our national motto(in a related story, ask how long "one nation under God" has been in the pledge of allegiance).
05-17-2011 , 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dids
God. Fly yells at you guys because any hint of nuance is totally wasted. I phrased everything I said pretty carefully and I'm "carrying the water for police murder".
Please don't encourage him. And eff the nuances of police actions that are only "necessary" because of idiotic laws that provide a lucrative business for violent criminals and that in turn lead to the deaths of innocents and the losses of individual freedoms.
05-17-2011 , 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JiggsCasey
"Managed to find?" ... LOL.... You can't look at the regional headlines anymore without stumbling all over stories just like this. But each time, cornucopians laugh the realities off, and refuse to acknowledge the trend overall.

Whether its a bankrupt federal government, or petty theft at the main st. level for trade goods. ... It's the same condition.

I guess to medieval fantasy addicts, everything is fairy dust and talking dragons. And the blonde hero always saves the day. LOL



Irony.
Bahaha, you still gonna try and insult me like that?

I watch one show with a medieval theme and its Game of Thrones, of which i have read zero books.
05-17-2011 , 03:36 PM
Quote:
P.S. A fun and potentially profitable game would be asking Tea Party types to guess how long "In God We Trust" has been our national motto(in a related story, ask how long "one nation under God" has been in the pledge of allegiance).
I would like to poll a thousand or so card carrying tea partiers and see what % came out against "adding"

Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
as an amendment to the constitution. For the lulz
05-17-2011 , 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
qdmcg- http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/dollarcoin.asp

I predict you will be VERY surprised by what you find at that link. I'm really glad DVaut mentioned the plen-T-plaint concept, it's really quite helpful when trying to understand why something like this would get emailed around for 4 years when literally anyone with access to the coin would be able to determine its falsehood.

P.S. A fun and potentially profitable game would be asking Tea Party types to guess how long "In God We Trust" has been our national motto(in a related story, ask how long "one nation under God" has been in the pledge of allegiance).
Apparently this specific e-mail chain has been going around for almost 4 years. I'd love to be able to follow the progression of how it still gets sent around 4 years later through the toobs.
05-17-2011 , 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys
lumping me in with riverfenix while complaining of people missing nuance.... GOLD JERRY GOLD!
I was on my phone busy being tilted by other stuff at lunch and didn't pay attention and just saw a colorful avatar and thought it was Borodog. So while he doesn't know it, he's the one who should be offended.

You on the other hand keep making arguments against points I'm not making and making a lot of assumptions about what happened that you simply don't know.

We have no idea what intelligence the police had in this situation. For all you know they believe it to be a heavily armored house (you may have missed the Wire reference, but it was simply a residential house they raided in S1, S3 had the larger warehouse raid IIRC). We just don't have enough information to know anything beyond that clearly the police coming in interpreted this as a potentially violent situation and that's all I'm trying to say.

pvn,

It would be awesome if you just made the point you wanted to make instead of asking silly questions.
05-17-2011 , 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by qdmcg
In my inbox today:
But dollar coins are good?
05-17-2011 , 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Phill]
Bahaha, you still gonna try and insult me like that?

I watch one show with a medieval theme and its Game of Thrones, of which i have read zero books.
I guess you post multiple avatars for "The Guild" also, but don't watch the show.

I mean, it's OK and all. Just don't lie about it.
05-17-2011 , 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKSpartan
Please don't encourage him. And eff the nuances of police actions that are only "necessary" because of idiotic laws that provide a lucrative business for violent criminals and that in turn lead to the deaths of innocents and the losses of individual freedoms.
So there's no point in talking specifics in a situation and you'd just prefer to rant about the bigger issues? That forgives glossing over somebody's post and interpreting it in a way that fits the narrative you wanted to put out there?

I mentioned this with something pvn posted a while back- these sorts of links are pointless if you want to talk about broad policy, because they're just one example that doesn't have much meaning and can be easily countered with other singular examples. So what's the point at all if people are unwilling to engage in specifics?
05-17-2011 , 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by qdmcg
Apparently this specific e-mail chain has been going around for almost 4 years. I'd love to be able to follow the progression of how it still gets sent around 4 years later through the toobs.
The best part is how apparently in 2008 to mollify these people they moved "In God We Trust" to a more prominent position on the coin, yet 3 years afterward somebody in your contact list is still fighting the good fight.
05-17-2011 , 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdemaine
I would like to poll a thousand or so card carrying tea partiers and see what % came out against "adding"



as an amendment to the constitution. For the lulz

Penn and Teller would do it, somebody get in touch with their people.
05-17-2011 , 03:54 PM
Dids,
You're indirectly suggesting that the drug war is legitimate. To use an extreme example, it's like if I were to begin discussing the merits of various strategies used by labor camp drivers to motivate prisoners to work. It suggests that I condone such actions and don't find them morally reprehensible. (And yes FFS I know my analogy isn't perfect. There is no such thing).
05-17-2011 , 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JiggsCasey
I guess you post multiple avatars for "The Guild" also, but don't watch the show.

I mean, it's OK and all. Just don't lie about it.
Lol, the Guild is a web sitcom based in the real world about people who meet by playing a game similar to World of Warcraft. It wasnt until season 3 it even showed any of the game itself.

Jesus Jiggs, i know you are terrible at working google cos you are a troofer and a general conspiratard but you should really look stuff up from time to time.

      
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