Out of curiosity, WTF does this have to do with anything going on now, based on all of the facts that have been established?

I mean Robert Dear had a beard and talked about radical religion to people but looking around I can't find a single reference of him being radicalised in news coverage.

Ding ding ding.... And the winner in a 2nd round knockout....

We should have kept the barn door closed 20 years ago. We should have kept it closed 15 years ago. We should have kept it closed 12 years ago. We should have kept it closed 4 years ago. But we didn't, and now we get it lorded in our face that the barn door is wide open-- well of course it is, it wasn't an unpredictable act of nature, it is the result of a deliberate course of action. Decades of absurd Middle East foreign policy aren't a mistake to the powers that be, they got exactly the result they wanted-- chaos in the Middle East and a pipeline of immigrants.

Practical suggestions include voting for your own best interests as opposed to the interests of the elites that hate you, and ejecting the leadership that callously sends your children and tax dollars to die in pointless wars while bringing warlike friction and conflict to your own country.

Have you come up with an explanation yet?

Hard to beat your own 'Turkish fans were shouting Allahu akbar during the minute of silence because they were praising the victims of terrorism' apology for islamism I admit.

Sure, let's stick with established facts. All their friends and family said they weren't fanatics. They wore body armour and masks and attempted to get away. The target was his workplace Christmas party which he attended then stormed out of angry.

So remind me, based on established facts. Why the **** are we saying they were radicalised?

All the evidence points to an American getting in an argument at the work party, leaving, coming back with his wife and brother and shooting the place up. If he was Christian no one even considers this was radicalised jihad.

It doesn't even look like terrorism at this point ffs!

Totally agree on the ME adventurism. Not so much on the anti-immigrant stance.

So vote for Bernie is your only practical suggestion?

Oh dear lord, Phil reaching Deuces level of 9/11 delusions at this point.

The wife with assault rifle blasting up the place was work place violence too? She worked there right? 12 pipe bombs, and hundreds of tools in his apartment was to make pipe bombs?

But wait! Everyone makes pipe bombs in their garage!

Phill is right - none of the witnesses/victims reported any declarations from the shooters, which is a near-universal hallmark of actual radicalized jihadists.

Tsarnovs?

The guy might have been radicalized, but the people saying that he actually was are going on pretty thin evidence (muslim, beard)

None of the facts back up the idea this was Islamic jihad. It was a mentally ill angry gun owner or whatever white people get called when they go on shooting rampages. Marilyn Manson and GTA look like bigger reasons at this point.

Literally the only evidence it was jihad is they are Muslim. Meanwhile everything else looks like an angry guy gets pissed off and shoots up the place planning to get away with it entirely. If he was a redneck no one is even considering religion to be a factor.

We were waiting for the facts on the planned parenthood shooter who has crosses all over his house and talked about no more baby parts but people are making ****ing huge leaps to conclusions here with these nutters.

Well, the FBI appears to disagree with you.

If this is actually correct then we have new info an reevaluate. Him having a beard wasn't information to draw judgement from.

So what was his wife doing with assault rifles shooting up the place?

BTW the less sensationalised version of the same connection:
"The FBI has tasked counterterrorism agents to the case, NPR's Carrie Johnson reports, but has not yet determined whether the attack was in fact an act of terrorism.

Carrie also says a source tells her Farook had some electronic contact with people overseas who were on the radar of U.S. national security officials, but that investigators are still trying to work out the significance of that contact."
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...-one-day-after

Lol I'm he one calling for people to wait until actual established facts get released and your asking me to speculate on their motives?

What am I, the super-fbi, way better than the actual fbi who don't know the answer to that question?

Tons of confusion about where terrorism comes from. It's as if pointing at one cause of any particular event means you think all terrorism must stem from that same source. No, when anti-govt. nuts blow up buildings, we're right to point out where they got such bad ideas about government. When Christian aholes shoot up abortion clinics we're right to point out where they got such bad ideas about abortion. And when Islamists kill infidels/blasphemers we're right to point out where they got such terrible ideas about non muslims/critics.

While there are tons of racists out there using poor reasoning about terrorism to support their racism (and probably one or two in here too), and that is a big problem, it doesn't change the facts above, and trying to deny those causes instead of explaining why they don't mean we should hate and fear all Muslims only bolsters the racists twisted world views.

Uhh you might want to get current with the facts.

This post is just embarrassing in it's lack of knowledge.

I don't understand why some people in this thread and the left in general are just choosing to continue to cling to this fantasy that ISIS/Radical Islam is not a significant threat and is under control. Nothing could be further from the truth.

That being said I have no idea how you effectively do anything to stop it. These types of attacks can be carried out by anyone anywhere and are very difficult to stop.

Growing a beard is not a data point. A Muslim growing a beard two months before killing 14 people is an indicator that yes he very well may have been radicalized. It is not proof, but it is a data point.

336 mass shootings this year. One so far by a radicalized Muslim.

Yeah ISIS sucks for some part of the world. Huge problem. For the US the main problem is it makes us feel more scared than the usual run of the mill mass shootings we get every month or so.

Pro-radicalised:

Trip to Saudi Arabia
Extensive planning, multiple IEDs
Multiple shooters atypical of workplace violence


Con:

No verbal declarations reported, atypical for in-person jihadi attacks
Possible desire to survive/escape
No acknowledgement/claim of responsibility from ISIS/other terrorist organisation
No propaganda or statement left behind or released in advance

The multiple shooters and the trip to SA make me lean towards "radicalised", whatever exactly we mean by that. Like I said before, there's only two other husband-and-wife attacks of this kind that I know of in the US. The school hostage-taker was a Sovereign Citizen (and also manifestly nuts) and so, I think, were the other two. That is its own political ideology and those incidents can rightly be called terrorism.

I've heard the wife shot and I've heard she just drove the getaway car. Can anyone confirm either of those?