**March Low Content Thread** - Page 45 - Politics and Economics

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03-24-2011 , 04:52 PM

#1101

pvn

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Posts: n/a

Yeah clearly he's just a hater who is GETTIN MAD from all the free monies given to those damn injuns, amirite?

03-24-2011 , 04:55 PM

#1102

Wynton

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Do you guys seriously wonder why we have a Bureau of Indian Affairs?

If so, just spend five seconds at their website and tell me whether it's still a mystery.

http://www.bia.gov/WhatWeDo/index.htm

03-24-2011 , 04:58 PM

#1103

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynton

Do you guys seriously wonder why we have a Bureau of Indian Affairs?

If so, just spend five seconds at their website and tell me whether it's still a mystery.

http://www.bia.gov/WhatWeDo/index.htm

At some point, we're going to run out of ways to politely tell you that you are completely missing the point. Stossels point is why have the BIA if it doesn't work.

03-24-2011 , 05:01 PM

#1104

General Tsao

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynton

No, you first. You're the one who seems to have some insight into the greater mind of Stossel.

What message do you think he's saying?

lol, excuse me for asking you to post some content ONE TIME.

jfc.

Anyways, my position has been explained by riverman/ikes/pvn

03-24-2011 , 05:03 PM

#1105

Wynton

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

At some point, we're going to run out of ways to politely tell you that you are completely missing the point. Stossels point is why have the BIA if it doesn't work.

He DOES NOT SAY THAT. And if he meant that, he could have done it without asking why Indians should get special treatment.

Moreover, Stossel has no clue why the bureau exists. I repeat: look at that website and tell me if you genuinely can't understand its purpose, and why we have Bureau of Indian Affairs as opposed to a Bureau of Irish Affairs, or whatever other group Stossel brought up.

03-24-2011 , 05:04 PM

#1106

Riverman

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Yeah, of course the BIA says, on their website, how awesome they are. But, like, look at how Indians are doing. This may be a bit more useful.

03-24-2011 , 05:04 PM

#1107

General Tsao

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Stossels point is why have the BIA if it doesn't work.

More than that, too. As has been his point in pretty much every broadcast he's done, throwing money at problems does not fix them. Anything the government gets its hands in turns to ****.

It wasn't as PVN explained, "Stupid Indians get so much help but are just too ****ty to do anything to make themselves better", it was "the government has ruined these people's lives, and continues to do so."

03-24-2011 , 05:06 PM

#1108

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynton

He DOES NOT SAY THAT.

Errrrr:

Quote:

"Why is there a Bureau of Indian Affairs?" he said. "There is no Bureau of Puerto Rican Affairs or Black Affairs or Irish Affairs. And no group in America has been more helped by the government than the American Indians, because we have the treaties, we stole their land. But 200 years later, no group does worse."

I don't know how it could be more clear.

Quote:

And if he meant that, he could have done it without asking why Indians should get special treatment.

Moreover, Stossel has no clue why the bureau exists. I repeat: look at that website and tell me if you genuinely can't understand its purpose, and why we have Bureau of Indian Affairs as opposed to a Bureau of Irish Affairs, or whatever other group Stossel brought up.

fail fail fail

03-24-2011 , 05:08 PM

#1109

Wynton

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Actually, Ikes, you're right in part. He does say "no group does worse." I offer a mea culpa on that.

BUT.......... he still is saying clearly that he doesn't understand why we have a Bureau of Indian Affairs when we don't have a Bureau of Irish Affairs. And that comment indicates that he doesn't understand what the bureau does.

03-24-2011 , 05:08 PM

#1110

General Tsao

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynton

He DOES NOT SAY THAT. And if he meant that, he could have done it without asking why Indians should get special treatment.

He answered why Indians get special treatment, btw, he said, "Why have a Bureau of Indian Affairs....because we stole their land" but then went on to say that with government help, they haven't improved, "And the Indians that get out of government management, they thrive in America."

"Individuals do better on their own if government would just butt out."

03-24-2011 , 05:10 PM

#1111

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynton

This is more fail, you're getting caught up in a rhetorical device you think is a dog whistle and missing the point he's trying to make.

03-24-2011 , 05:10 PM

#1112

Wynton

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For example, does Stossel know this:

Quote:

The federal Indian trust responsibility is a legal obligation under which the United States “has charged itself with moral obligations of the highest responsibility and trust” toward Indian tribes (Seminole Nation v. United States, 1942). This obligation was first discussed by Chief Justice John Marshall in Cherokee Nation v. Georgia (1831). Over the years, the trust doctrine has been at the center of numerous other Supreme Court cases, thus making it one of the most important principles in federal Indian law.

The federal Indian trust responsibility is also a legally enforceable fiduciary obligation on the part of the United States to protect tribal treaty rights, lands, assets, and resources, as well as a duty to carry out the mandates of federal law with respect to American Indian and Alaska Native tribes and villages. In several cases discussing the trust responsibility, the Supreme Court has used language suggesting that it entails legal duties, moral obligations, and the fulfillment of understandings and expectations that have arisen over the entire course of the relationship between the United States and the federally recognized tribes.

Could this possibly explain why we have a Bureau of Indian Affairs, but not similar bureaus for other groups?

03-24-2011 , 05:10 PM

#1113

Huehuecoyotl

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Meh, Stossel could have worded it a lot better if that was his point.

03-24-2011 , 05:11 PM

#1114

Wynton

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

This is more fail, you're getting caught up in a rhetorical device you think is a dog whistle and missing the point he's trying to make.

No, I'm not accusing him of a dog whistle. I'm accusing him of just being uninformed about the unique purpose of the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

03-24-2011 , 05:12 PM

#1115

General Tsao

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynton

For example, does Stossel know this:

Could this possibly explain why we have a Bureau of Indian Affairs, but not similar bureaus for other groups?

OMG THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID IN THE VIDEO YOU LINKED US TO

He said and this is not verbatim, just watch the video, "why do we have a bureau of indian affairs and not Irish/Black/puerto rican, because we stole their lands and for the treaties."

03-24-2011 , 05:14 PM

#1116

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynton

No, I'm not accusing him of a dog whistle. I'm accusing him of just being uninformed about the unique purpose of the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Ok, then you're just getting caught up in a rhetorical device. It's still fail.

03-24-2011 , 05:14 PM

#1117

ElliotR

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

This is more fail, you're getting caught up in a rhetorical device you think is a dog whistle and missing the point he's trying to make.

lol.

03-24-2011 , 05:17 PM

#1118

Wynton

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Ok, then you're just getting caught up in a rhetorical device. It's still fail.

It's not my fault his "rhetorical device" sucks.

03-24-2011 , 05:19 PM

#1119

pvn

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GEORGE IS GETTIN UPSET

03-24-2011 , 05:20 PM

#1120

Wynton

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

GEORGE IS GETTIN UPSET

I don't even know who you're referring to, but I lol'd.

03-24-2011 , 05:21 PM

#1121

pvn

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Posts: n/a

I'm not sure who I was referring to, either.

03-24-2011 , 05:26 PM

#1122

2/325Falcon

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Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 21,906

Jimmy holds a grudge.

03-24-2011 , 05:27 PM

#1123

General Tsao

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I wonder how many people are going to look at that Stossel thing, and have the same exact reaction as Wynton because they only read that webpage and didn't watch the video.

03-24-2011 , 05:33 PM

#1124

Wynton

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Quote:

Originally Posted by General Tsao

I wonder how many people are going to look at that Stossel thing, and have the same exact reaction as Wynton because they only read that webpage and didn't watch the video.

I admit that I didn't watch, and I assumed that the transcript was a fair representation. But did you or anyone else say that the quote was out of context? I might have watched the whole video then.

(But probably not: I'd rather lose an argument here than be forced to watch more than 10 seconds of Stossel.)