Yeah, the rebels should just have rolled over and be killed.

gtfo

Obama is a joker plain and simple. Lets just make a comparison.....the whole Arab Spring had people peacefully protesting. Thes people in Libya are rebels with guns. They are not peaceful protesters like in Egypt, Yemen, Tunisia, and the rest of those Arab countries. Any Western countries governments would kill rebels that tried to overthrow a government. Qadaffi would have done what any leader would have done and freaking shot them to death. But it didnt even get to that point.....he said he was going to attack but never even got a chance to hit the rebels hard.
Since Obama and the rest of the bought n paid crooked politicans might as well go into Syria now. They are killing protesters who are peaceful, that are not weilding AK-47s.
Sorry im not patriotic for not supporting AL Qaeda, they do have some AQ members that are with the rebels

50'000 what, loyalist fighters? Good.

You've got the entire timeline screwed up.

People peacefully protested Gaddafi. He started killing them. Rebels fought back. Gaddafi started winning and almost got complete control by retaking Benghazi.

But according to you, we should never have helped rebels fight against a totalitarian dictator because OMG They might institute sharia law and AQ might be with some of the rebels (source?) .

Looks like one of the sons (Saadi) wants to surrender, and says he's representing his entire family, but at the same time Saif al-Islam talks about staying in the fight. I believe Saadi is the leader of the special forces so I wonder if his surrender will have any effect.

Yea the fighting was that one sided and all the civilians have bullet proof vests.

Cmon.

If I understood the tally well, the estimate of 50.000 was civilian + rebel casualties.

Are people actually drinking the kool-aid that there is a "good" side and a "bad" side?

I think there is probably a worse side and a better side. I'm certainly not celebrating the liberation of Libya just yet.

A lot of people on the ground in Libya have a very defined idea of which side is good and which side is bad.

Anyway, it's kinda hard to be worse than Qaddafi.

I can see thousand scenarios where life under Qaddafi will look like paradise. Long civil war can kill a lot of people...

IOZ

imo

NATO is to blame....if we didnt help the rebels they would have been crushed. If you are real rebels you should fight on your own and not take outside foreign help.

Made a post on this, haven't had time to read all this thread but I don't think you are right about the west not stepping in looks like it was on the agenda. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMAON...layer_embedded
4 star general explaining they wanted to get at Libya for quite some time, and doesn't look like they will stop there.

So documents have been found by the rebels showing China selling weapons to Gaddafi a short while ago while the embargo was active. I get that the west will probably get preferential treatment in the future when it comes to business deals but this is a terribad move by China. I think there is a decent chance they excluded themselves from the new Libya.

A Libyan military convoy has been found in Chad. I'm not sure what the plan here is but maybe Gaddafi is setting up a base there to continue fighting.

You rabid liberals and neo-cons still screaming for Gaddafis blood?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fMnutCT1nw

If you take that video for a good and reliable perspective on Gaddafi's legacy, you must be really puzzled by the rebels' motives to put their lives on the line to fight Gaddafi's forces and the excitement of the population about having deposed of Gaddafi.

Muslims hate Muslims. You think the 7/7 London bombers appreciated all the free healthcare, education and benefits the UK gave them while they were growing up? People who get free **** have an entitlement mentality and don't take anything like that into consideration until it's too late to turn the clocks back.

Here is a really good article about Libya and its post-Gaddafi challenges: http://www.merip.org/mero/mero090711

Given this post, I'd say you chose a very appropriate nickname.

Well looks like they found someone who might be worse, I love the fact they call him former jihadist. Like being a jihadist is a profession.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa...tml?hpt=wo_mid

Breaks my 2 rules of jihad - 1 once a jihadist always a jihadist, 2- the only good jihadist is a dead jihadist.

It's interesting how little anyone's talking about this. But you know if things were going wrong (which they very well might still) both republicans and democrats would be all over Obama about it. It just doesn't fit with any of the current butthurt narratives, so we'll ignore it for now.

Freedom is on the march imo.

women are going to be the one enjoying most of the benefits imo. If this was the first time that a relatively secular islamic country went hardcore after western intervention I would think its not that bad because the less amounts of freedom had by the unlucky country will save many more lives in the future since people will eventually dismiss foreign interventionism but given that it already happened in Afganistan im not so optimistic.