Alex, I usually enjoy reading your posts, but youre being completely nonsensical.

What of the child doesn't want to vaccinate?

I'm certainly opposed to forced vaccination--no one has the right to use another's body without their consent--but by the same token I support kids who want to get vaccinated against their parents' wishes.

Some kind of weird level?

that's what we think you are doing.

I could understand maybe if you didn't get the religion analogy, even though it's really, really obvious if one thinks about (well, assuming you have minimal tolerance of different beliefs, which most people don't), but I have no idea how you can have found what you quoted to be nonsensical. If you've been vaccinated, you're immune to a disease, that's what a vaccination is. So if everyone else is vaccinated, how can one unvaccinated person be a public health danger? Dangerous to them, sure, but not to the public.

No, I'm just trying to pierce a cognitive dissonance that most people have. It's not easy and probably not worth the effort.

"My beliefs are the right ones, so it's okay for me to force them on others!"

fyp

No - What I was saying was that your argument, which seemed to be that if we let government force vaccines, we should/will let them force religion too for the same reasons, was irrelevant because of the first amendment.

You'll also note that people are not allowed to do arranged mirages, kidnap their 'claimed' wives, conduct female circumcisions, stone those who have sex before they are married, kill those who don't believe in God, and a myriad of other things that should be allowed under the First Amendment. Do you disagree with all of these ideas, too?


The vaccination policy isn't forcing anything on any adult. It's forcing something based on FACT (knowing, not believing, by the way) over something based on hypothesis. If there were evidence of this all powerful Church that makes anyone who goes to it have a great life, even then you still would not have a point, as once again, 1st Amendment.

No, Alex is right here, if you and your family are vaccinated how are you at risk?

Regardless of how you want to interpret my motives, there's only two scenarios possible.

1. allowing idiot parents to make bad decisions for their children
2. allowing idiot officials to make bad decisions for everyone

Now, you may believe that the first option causes more harm than the second, and you're entitled to your opinion, but the one thing you cannot do is try to pretend that you have a 3rd option.

natedogg

Well, a third option might include not allowing parents to force their children not to get vaccinations (in addition, of course, to not allowing the government to forcibly vaccinate children who do not wish it).

idiot officials, aka DOCTORS

Did you read the article? The problem is vaccines are only 95% effective so you are committing battery if I get sick imo.

Public health is affected, in that the smaller the percentage of vaccinated individuals in a given society the higher the cases of disease. When an un-vaccinated child gets sick, or requires medical care this takes away resources (both financial, technical and expertise) from other sick individuals. A recent example can be shown that when there were measles outbreaks in the midwest a couple of years ago many hospitals were severely understaffed to cope with this influx of patients from a preventable disease, not to mention the amount of money spent on medical care, testing, labor, ect.. It is not just the un-vaccinated individuals that have to pay taxes, medicare, ect.. for uninsured people that get sick due to preventable diseases.

You are still vulnerable to the disease even if you have been inoculated, you can not get inoculated until a certain age and there is significant costs accrued by the community to deal with many dangerous diseases because you decided not to vaccinate your children.

But other than that, no risk!

AlexM is forced to equate religious belief with scientifical data in order to make an argument, what else do you expect him to say people?
The thing is that society has to make a desition as to whether we allow the state to intervene on parenting desitions, ACists dont realize their line is just as arbitrary as our line only that their line is based on some stupid book that is laughed by on the serious academic world ( ethics of liberty) while our line is based on ****ing common sense.

should parents be allowed to force their children to get a vaccine against their will?

yesh

If your kid is one of those who gets sick even with the vaccine, what do you think should happen?

yes

Even if vaccines are only 95% effective, it's still forcing your beliefs on others. Is the religious radical who believes that people of other religions could potentially sway their children to that religion, thereby endangering their souls, justified in using force to make others follow his religion? Of course not.

Kill them IMO to keep them from endangering anyone else.

Hey, alex, you've convinced me. We have no right to impose our beliefs on others. Therefore we should overturn laws against rape, who are WE TO JUDGE?

nothing, but kids with immune systems don't die or get severely sick from modern vaccinations.

Rape laws aren't about judging, they're about self-defense from someone actively trying to harm you or someone else. (note the difference between active and passive)