People's economic stupidity about basic stuff amazes me every time.

No, you're missing my point. Where did you get the EXCESS CASH OVER AND BEYOND YOUR SUBSISTENCE CONSUMPTION NEEDS? Because that sort of cash laying around sounds like a certain dirty six-letter word starting with p and ending in t and with "rofi" in the middle.

[ You pretty obviously dont get this.

I do, and if I were arguing against capitalism it might be relevant.

A group of workers could pool money together to start a company just like one owner could. I'm not sure if you're implying that salary beyond subsistence is the same thing as profit here, I'm clearly not using it in that context.

The problem is that you consider them different things. They aren't.

They are, one is the subsistence of the business itself the other is the subsistence of the individual.

So where does the owner's pay come in?

What I mean is, in a small business the profit IS the owner's pay. Is it ok to profit if it's to sustain an individual in this case?

I'm not exactly sure what your question is but owner's "pay" is necessarily profit. If the owner is involved with the company as a manager, you could subtract what his pay would be as if employed by someone else as a manager and consider what is left as profit.

So it's fine if the profit is redistributed only to the owner provided he is an employee.

and again, I'm not at all saying it isn't ok to profit for a variety of reasons, just that profit distorts laborers' worth.

Never said profit is bad at all.

You just feel that ever making a profit is less valuable because they could be a charity instead.

Pretty much everyone on the MW side who did not at first understand my earlier point of being on the same side as someone but nevertheless being embarrassed about how they present the position fully understands now.

Still no.

overhead has nothing to do with the worth of a single employee, unless you are counting only the overhead incurred by that particular employee. Examples might include employer-paid payroll taxes, contributions to 401k/pension etc, certain tools/equipment that must be provided by employer, etc.

where did anybody ITT every explicitly state that profit was bad, or that businesses should be charities?

Have you read NMcNasty's posts?

So, right, not bad, but plainly the result of unjustly witholding from employees their rightful share in the spoils, if there are spoils, over and above their normal pay.

Now, my usual response is that when you get tired of working for someone else, start a business and see how you like it. I call it the Song of the Self-employed.

One thing I keep forgetting to ask: how should a bank read this business's financials? To qualify for any credit at all you must demonstrate a healthy, profitable company, and, now, the principals must produce their personal tax returns for the last two years as well.

I'm renting now and want to purchase a building in a few years because my mortgage will be half or less of what I pay in rent for the same amount of space. I'll need a downpayment (30% cash) plus qualify for a mortgage. The downpayment is normally accumulated by savings of the prior years' profits, but under your advisement I have been redistributing it all to the staff so have no downpayment and my bottom lines are zero.

A move to ownership would make much more money available for the staff to roll around in.

What is your advice in this position?

oops, missed a few pages. and yea his posts were pretty lolworthy. or possibly scary. maybe a bit of both. so anyway, as for my opinion, profit is great, but millions of workers in this country are underpaid (some by a wide margin).

At Fisherman's Wharf help wanted signs are ignored. Beggars make more than 10 bucks an hour.

I tried to stay out of this after my original 'contribution' but for the love of GOD there aren't enough LOL's on my keyboard to respond to this.

McNasty, please buy this T-shirt: http://www.zazzle.com/stop_making_pr...79087148911953

To be fair, filling bread bowls with clam chowder for fat Midwestern tourists all day would drive most people away.

I don't even consider it an injustice, its just an apparent fact of capitalism. Capitalism allows you to make money from money with zero effort on your part. That gain in value comes from the labor of others. Whether you work yourself or not is irrelevant.

doesn't apply

Banks only loan for their own profit. Yes, obviously there's no reason for a bank to give a loan to non-profit.

When did I advise all owners to redistribute all their profit to their employees? Obviously its not in their personal interest to do so.

That's exactly my opinion. I'm being strawmanned here by 5 different people.