The negotiations go more like this:
Prospective employee: "I would like higher wages and safer working conditions."
Employer: "Our working conditions are quite safe (lie), we have continuously cleared all safety inspections (bribed official), and our pay is consistent with or better than industry standards (lie, filtered statistics)."
Employee: ":|"

Companies deceive employees and potential employees into accepting the status quo rather than challenge them to weigh their options.

If only we could cut our corporate taxes we could finally compete with those $3/hour employees overseas.

Don't worry, we're almost there!

I crashed and burned (out) , in my previous profession (speculating) , and now am a working stiff, well i work at a company that sells wares , and I am flabbergasted , that it is cheaper to bring in a 50lb item from China , deal with that uncertainty, pay freight and tariffsas opposed to just making them locally . There is a huge gap in what an American will work for and what someone overseas will. Capitalism at its finest.

couple this with the fact that shipping costs don't appear any cheaper on the horizon...
when rapid manufacturing becomes more mainstream,
all outsourcing would do is increase wait times/costs on raw materials [except for rare earth metals, and non-recyclables].

Leaving aside the moral issues, you don't see a contradiction here in assuming that competitive markets(1st world) can compete with non-competitive markets?

I don't think I understand what assumption you think I'm making. I believe the following things:

-Labor markets in third world countries are usually competitive in the sense that employees can choose who to work for. To the extent that's not true, it would be slave labor, which I think everyone can agree is appalling and evil. (IIRC, China has some restrictions on travel that probably have a similar effect. I think those are wrong too.)
-In the reverse direction, I think third world economies are probably freer in allowing employers to choose their employees.
-I think the US has a comparative advantage in some manufacturing fields, but not in others.

I think that only the first assumption is really relevant to the argument I was making.

I really don't think your first bullet point is true. I can't look into it now, but I doubt people have more than 1-2 options of where to work in a lot of these places. It's not like they can move to another state/country with the no money they have. Hell, a lot of the people in the US can't do it.

Chinese move all the time from poor villages to the city. It's a lot cheaper than you think.

Greyhound tickets are not terribly expensive in the US, anyone saying they can't afford it in the US is ******ed.

I thought you were labeling those markets as non-comptetive, which you clearly weren't. Labor mobility aside I would label them as non comptetive but I have no real understanding of the Chinese labor market other then there's alot poor people competing for jobs.

There's a lot more associated to moving for a job in the US other than greyhound tickets.

Edit: Also, I guess I'm still thinking of terms of the video that was posted, which was talking more about people in Africa working for like $.75 a day, not China.

Who's to say they won't? They already have...

Didn't they already cut wages by more than that to get to the current sweatshop? Aren't they looking at other countries for cheaper labor while still paying current labor $.30 an hour?

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GATS mod 4...

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I don't understand why an entrepreneur has not opened a Walmart type store that only sells products that were made in America. Sure, prices might be a tad bit higher, but considering how many progressive minded Americans we have, this type of store would be welcomed with open arms. I would also recommend that the employees of this store get paid, $12-15/hr instead of the minimum wage. Hey, Warren Buffet has a lot of money, why hasn't he done it?

If you have a lot of stuff, moving is more expensive. But for poor people, that's not an issue.

Yeah, people in Africa are going to be worse off and have fewer options. There are a lot more complicated reasons why they have fewer options and have so little money, though. Remove those obstacles, and they can become as "rich" as the Chinese, and end up doing better.

I think in the next century, you will see Africa transform into the new China/India. There is such potential there to improve peoples lives, and once you remove the external forces that make it hard to set up shop there profitably, you will see things grow. At least that's my hope.

Because that store would look like this:



/s, There are people trying this, mainly SEO junkies using the amazon affiliate program.

Already happening in East African nations with relatively stable governments.

East African nations have gone relatively unnoticed because of their size relative to India and China but they've been part of THE greatest economic expansion and and reduction of human suffering (read, more people out of poverty) the world has ever seen in a 10~20 year period.

It's absolutely what little stability and government can do. Even with 10% internet penetration, information technology has contributed greatly to agricultural production in the region, not to mention longer term impacts on education.

Their governments have just grown rich enough in the past 3 or 4 years to really invest in infrastructure and telecommunications is high on their list.

I only wish the US government were as dedicated to providing affordable broadband access to its citizens.

Private companies are doing a great job of it.

I have also made this suggestion to friends , . I am sure you can round up enough mftg's across all product lines to give this a go. with an upcoming collapse of the dollar and overseas workers having an improvement in QOL (higher wages , read about china and higher pays across the board) , i think this idea is quite feasible.
I was even calling the store "made in america"

Yeah US manufacturing output will never be as low as it was 10 years ago for a long time to come.

So how is building a factory that offers jobs that are preferable to these people's other alternatives a problem?

Who is better of if the factory never exists?

you know what they say about statistics right? there has also been hardly any inflation the past 5 years.

lol europe

Well why not cut wages by another 10%? Why go to the expense of moving an entire factory just to get cheaper labor when you could simply make your workers take a pay cut? They have no power, after all.

You'll have to explain this one. Googling does not explain how GATS has revived the slave trade.

Actually the problem for poor people is worse because stuff is easy to move but everything else they have to contend with doesnt effect the middle class nearly as much. I wouldnt class myself as poor, but i dont have much stuff right now and could easily fit my life into to a large suitcase and some big shoulder bag. Its how i lived in uni.

However i couldnt move across my country let alone across yours without some significant front capital. Id either need a job before moving which is hard in this labour market especially for min wage style work the poor do, why hire me across the country when they can hire some other dude who lives in the area? So i would need front capital for rent and living expenses which i wouldnt be comfortable having less than 6 months of, something the poor by definition wont have stashed away as they mostly live bill to bill as it is. They would be moving away from family and friends and the safety net that provides so there are large psychological barriers and finally if they are in any kind of socialised offset cost housing where the state covers some or all of their rent (what we call council housing) the ability to move from one area to another will often involve joining the bottom of a huge waitlist.

In China you actually have comparative advantages given Foxconn will provide dormitories to live in and they are specifically set up to provide for a highly mobile workforce, however that just isnt true in the west.

There is the argument it should be and this could be made easier, but its silly to think that it is easy or that its just a case that poor people can decide on a whim to move from Detroit to Austin cos the job market is better there. If it were so easy they already would be doing that on mass.